Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[crazyaboutchickens]

Got a question...anyone with a cross beak being fed on FF notice any changes? Someone on another forum had a cross beak and started on the FF and now that bird no longer has a cross beak! It was not born with one but developed one...and now has UN-developed one. Could cross beak be a nutritional defect in these birds that is corrected by the FF? Here's a little info that may explain why FF could help with cross beak that wasn't present at birth...not conclusive, by all means, but it still may hold a clue:

• Nutritional Deficiencies: Many beak deformities are caused by simple nutritional deficiencies. [COLOR=0000CD]The most common are[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]methionine[/COLOR][COLOR=0000CD], sulpha, biotin (a vitamin) and calcium[/COLOR]. Without enough of these the beak material doesn't form properly and tends to bend rather than wear properly. All of these are common deficiencies in the typical diets fed to cage and aviary birds around the world. The problem is easily solved by supplementing with a good quality supplement, such as "Daily Essentials3 and CalciBoost". Remember that the 'new' beak material will take 9-12 months to reach the 'wearing zone' so some beak trimming may be required in the meantime.

• Liver Damage: Another possible cause is liver damage. Again the beak becomes too soft to wear properly. Unfortunately the liver does not repair itself well so this is harder to solve. However ,we can reduce the amount of work the liver has to do and this is often more than enough for the symptom to go away completely. [COLOR=FF0000]Methionine[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]is again important as is another[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]amino acid - lysine.[/COLOR] Again Daily Essentials3 and CalciBoost should sort it out though even more of these amino acids will be supplied if Gold Label Feast (a soft food) can make up 25% or more of the diet. Your avian vet will be able to assess the bird's liver performance with simple blood tests. Remember that the 'new' beak material will take 9-12 months to reach the 'wearing zone' so some beak trimming may be required in the meantime. - Malcolm Green, Director, The Birdcare Company - malcolm [at] BirdcareCo.com

Now..remember the article excerpts that I some pages ago? BDG stands for Brewers Dried Grains..which are probably a little less nutritional than even our FF. And they are only adding up to 30% of the ration as BDG...ours is 100%.

Table 3. Calculated amino acid composition of experimental diets.

	Level of BDG (%) in the rations​
[COLOR=FF0000]Amino acid[/COLOR]	0	10	20	30
Arginine	1.25	1.12	1.09	1.04
Cystine	0.26	0.48	0.49	0.48
Histidine	0.45	0.40	0.38	0.37
Isoleucine	0.79	0.85	0.90	0.94
Leucine	1.75	1.90	2-03	2.14
Lysine	0.96	0.95	0.96	0.96
[COLOR=FF0000]Methionine[/COLOR]	0.27	0.28	0.33	0.38
Phenylalanine	0.87	0.85	0.82	0.80
Threonine	0.65	0.65	0.65	0.66
Tryptophan	0.21	0.21	0.22	0.23
Tryrosine	0.09	0.21	0.33	0.45
Valine	0.79	0.84	0.88	0.93

[COLOR=0000CD]Look at these lysine levels when these grains are fermented!!![/COLOR]

[quote url="[URL]http://www.fao.org/docrep/x2184e/x2184e06.htm[/URL]"] [COLOR=0000CD]Bacterial fermentation produces[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]lysine[/COLOR][COLOR=0000CD], often increasing its concentration by many fold and making grains nearly a "complete protein",[/COLOR] i.e. one that contains the ideal balance of essential amino acids as do animal proteins (11, scroll down to see graph). Not very many plant foods can make that claim. [COLOR=0000CD]Fermentation also increases the concentration of the amino acid[/COLOR] [COLOR=FF0000]methionine[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000CD]and certain vitamins.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=0000CD]And totally unrelated to the topic of the post, but impressive still, is the increase in thiamine; an essential need for the immune, nerve and reproductive systems of the chickens.[/COLOR]

[/quote] Thank you for bringing this up as a possible remedy for cross beaks. I acquired an EE chick a few weeks ago that has recently grown a cross beak. I wasn't really sure at what age to start feeding him FF, not really for vitamin value, but for weight gain since he's rather thin. But I will be definitely starting a new batch today.

 

[foreverlearning]

Update on my Broilers:

All of them are doing great now, I haven't seen the Ascites come back yet. I know many people say that it can't be cured, but I have this lingering feeling that maybe the FF was the trick to helping them pull threw. I only have one chick that wants the heat and that was the last one treated. I suspect that by the morning it will not need it anymore if it follows the pattern of the rest. They are not eating as much food as before but they sure are digging holes in my yard and finding something good there. They have stopped flipping over and falling over when they scratch, so they are getting better at it.

I used to think that all snakes had large dens, and if you saw one there was sure to be another. However, after I got rid of the one I haven't seen another. Lets hope it stays that way!

Last night (day 8) my animal chores ran until just after dark and I had them outside. They were for the most part sleeping so I left them there. I was thinking nice temps, they seem content, and I might be able to sleep threw the night. Boy, was I wrong! I worried all night for fear of another snake or worse and kept checking on them. I was greeted with the stink eye. They all did fine and slept threw the night for the first time. I left them out tonight as well, I am glad to have the smell out of the house. For some reason I have a handful that seem to feel the need to roll in the FF, that combined with the heat is worse of a smell than the poop.

I added a little bit more food to the FF as it was getting low, and it started looking like it did at first. With your help and suggesting not to throw it out, I now know to what extent to expect in the feed. They seemed to like it better than before, but ate less. I know they were full because they all had full crops and went to sleep.

They are starting to feather out quickly. I still don't know what mix is in this breed. The tops of the wings and the tips are white with black in the middle. The feathers on the back range from red tinted black to brown tinted black. Some are getting white feathers on the chest with black bodies. Some have black legs, but most are yellow.

Thank you all for helping me threw this.

 

[TIC Remember]

May I ask a question? I have been reading though the thread. Wondering if your information is predominantly related to meat birds only? I know some people feed fermented to layers also. Just wondering if the information in THIS thread, when you talk about your experiences, is about meat birds.

 

[Triple Willow]

May I ask a question?  I have been reading though the thread.  Wondering if your information is predominantly related to meat birds only?  I know some people feed fermented to layers also.  Just wondering if the information in THIS thread, when you talk about your experiences, is about meat birds.

I think everybody keeps a flock of layers but most finish out meat birds on occassion also. Right now I only have layers and future layers and breeding roosters. Fermented feed works great for all chickens.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

May I ask a question?  I have been reading though the thread.  Wondering if your information is predominantly related to meat birds only?  I know some people feed fermented to layers also.  Just wondering if the information in THIS thread, when you talk about your experiences, is about meat birds.

I'm new to this whole fermenting feed stuff, I have only been at it for about a month now but have been on this thread for quite some time and most folks are feeding it to either meat birds and/or layers. I am feeding it to my layers but next year when I acquire more meat birds they will be getting it to.

 

[foreverlearning]

May I ask a question? I have been reading though the thread. Wondering if your information is predominantly related to meat birds only? I know some people feed fermented to layers also. Just wondering if the information in THIS thread, when you talk about your experiences, is about meat birds.

It started out for advice on meat birds because there wasn't one. Now it is just an FF thread for anything you feed it to. It is the most active FF thread with some great OT's on it. If you have any question for your layers just throw it out there and someone will answer you.

 

[TIC Remember]

Okay. Thank you.

 

[Triple Willow]

@foreverlearning... I am really glad things are looking up for you! Great news! Keep us posted with pictures as your birds grow.

 

[Beekissed]

May I ask a question? I have been reading though the thread. Wondering if your information is predominantly related to meat birds only? I know some people feed fermented to layers also. Just wondering if the information in THIS thread, when you talk about your experiences, is about meat birds.

It started out for advice on meat birds because there wasn't one. Now it is just an FF thread for anything you feed it to. It is the most active FF thread with some great OT's on it. If you have any question for your layers just throw it out there and someone will answer you.

Exactly! I believe there is wayyyyyy more info on this thread for layers than for meat birds as most people doing this have never had meat birds.

Most of the experience related in this thread pertains to layer flocks.

 

[Windy Bay Farm]

This is just an example of how much my birds love the FF ! They follow me around and practically jump atop the FF bucket when they know it's feeding time !! I have three white buckets and they know which one holds the FF. LOL !