Fermenting Feed for Meat Birds

[beverly evans]

Now THAT'S a mama! That's probably about what mine would have done ...if she didn't beat me to death.

TW, You had good parents. You're right, the responsibility should be put on the owners for bad dogs. If people went to jail for what their dogs did and had to pay out the whazo things would change fast, like paying for someone's plastic surgery, rehab or psyche counseling. Those fees can be astronomical. Shitty people who don't care about other people often a lot care about their pocket books!

 

[beverly evans]

It would probably slow things down a bit if we would prosecute the *owner* for whatever crime the dog committed. Maybe one 'level' down. Like, if your dog kills someone, you have to be charged with a minimum of manslaughter. Maiming, assault and battery with intent to kill. That sort of thing. We need to put the responsibility with the owner. If your dog is turning mean because the neighbor kids are taunting it, why do you leave the dog alone and unprotected like that? A trained gaurd animal wouldn't 'turn mean' because they'd be smarter than the taunting kids. And if you can prove kids are throwing rocks, well, if they broke a window, they could be charged with criminal mischief. Charge 'em, prosecute, punish (worked on my brother, spent an entire summer mucking stalls for restitution. Never broke in anywhere ever again). 'Course, my mom backed the whole thing to the hilt, not one of those "oh, not MY son" poor excuses for a parent... when he got home from mucking stalls, he had to go pick up trash in the neighborhood until dinner time, then homework, then more trash pick up until bed time. Heck, *I* never forgot that lesson. Made a heck of an impression on the neighbor kids too. Anyway, can you tell I'm big on personal responsibility?
(And, I have a rescued mix that was *trained* to *eat* cats. So he is NEVER off a leash or outside a fence. 'cause *I* am responsible for him.)

Sorry, It was not TW's comment I should have been referring to but Aletas .

 

[beverly evans]

shes a staffordshire bull terrier crossed with a black & white sheep dog, supposed to be labrador in there too, but doesnt have the bottomless stomach. We got her from a pet shop, last of her litter, so theyd put kittens in with her to keep her company. She has a vocal opininated staffy sense of humor with the collie smarts. Figured out the chooks were mine and she doesnt like it when im cross with her. Of course every sparrow, pigron or tui that fliits through the garden gets sent packing.
Last dog decimated the flock and bit people, we got this one to heal little kid broken hearts, lucky us.

That 1/4 staffordshire terrier (pit bull) is what made her so smart! Can you tell I'm prejudiced in their favor?

 

[Beekissed]

I'd say it was the border collie genetics...

They have been listed as the most intelligent breed. My sis has always kept pits and they are dumber than dirt, kill each other, eat the cats...you name it, they cannot be controlled or left on their own for any length of time without doing something horrible, either to each other, the other animals or the property. And, no, these dogs were never used in fighting...babied, treated like children, well socialized to humans and other animals... up to a certain age and then have to be isolated behind strong barriers or they eat one another. She's had several from all different sources and bloodlines die from killing one another, several cats killed from that....but..she just keeps getting that breed like it's something special.

I'm sure there are good ones out there but I've seen none of them in all my days and I'm old, so I'd say they are a rarity.

 

[beverly evans]

I'd say it was the border collie genetics...

They have been listed as the most intelligent breed. My sis has always kept pits and they are dumber than dirt, kill each other, eat the cats...you name it, they cannot be controlled or left on their own for any length of time without doing something horrible, either to each other, the other animals or the property. And, no, these dogs were never used in fighting...babied, treated like children, well socialized to humans and other animals... up to a certain age and then have to be isolated behind strong barriers or they eat one another. She's had several from all different sources and bloodlines die from killing one another, several cats killed from that....but..she just keeps getting that breed like it's something special.

I'm sure there are good ones out there but I've seen none of them in all my days and I'm old, so I'd say they are a rarity.

I'm sorry to hear all that bad experience. I'm just lucky in the ones we've had and known, none like you mentioned anyway. Maybe too, like her I go for the underdog and malaligned. But she should seriously look to other states or something to get far away from those bad lines. Yuk!

 

[keepmumsane]

Ive never met a pet staffy I didnt like, by that I mean properly introduced.
Sadly people here tend to breed them as tough dogs which is a great shame as they're very loving and cuddly. As our pointer showed some blood lines are really flawed and backyard breeders Really destroy a breeds reputation.
Our dog was a dodgy random litter the pet shop bought mainly cos the were cute...money in Puppies, greed is also a dangerous ingrediant in breed destruction .
Arrived in the boot/trunk of a car and her litter had been fed on rice bubbles.
( of course i heard this story after the children had fallen in love with her )
The pet shop did a nice job of socialising her. Nicest dog, incrediably gentle with little kids, speeds up with the big ones, reckon thats staffy, has the herding eye dog instincts, which is why I taught her she could herd them off the deck and patio.
Talks staffy though.

Did get Lucky with a non poultry chomper though. Phew.

I stopped walking my pointer to the library without a muzzle as the no hoper pack of kids loitering outside would taunt her, the muzzle was for her protection not theirs. ( yep baby gang members hang out by the library, show us ya small town)

I think its mongrel humans that mostly ruin dogs. Bad breeding policies, greed, lack of handling skills. Some dogs are just born broken and some are trained by broken people.

 

[Angelicisi]

The misbehaving pits are the owners fault. I raised pits then switched to rescuing pits and before I got my Aussie, they were the best with loyalty. I've come across hundreds in my rescues and only 2 were not friendly towards other animals/cats after they were socialized. I never had to hit them once to train or get them to obey. If someone does, they don't need to own that breed because they can't handle it and will only add to the bad rap they have.
A pit has a bad rap because their owners don't think or follow thru on the necessity of owning a breed of dog with A. A bad reputation due to bad owners and B. An energy level that a normal person may find insane and C. Training. Not half butted "sit" / "fetch" but a constant training of "heel" "stay" & "wait" & "go home".
Small chihuahuas and Labs hold the human attack records edited-in some stat records for the reason why beekissed stated, the areas preferred breed at time of stats, pits just make the news.
Boredom, over crowding, not enough exercise will cause all of those issues.

I'd say it was the border collie genetics...    They have been listed as the most intelligent breed.  My sis has always kept pits and they are dumber than dirt, kill each other, eat the cats...you name it, they cannot be controlled or left on their own for any length of time without doing something horrible, either to each other, the other animals or the property.  And, no, these dogs were never used in fighting...babied, treated like children, well socialized to humans and other animals... up to a certain age and then have to be isolated behind strong barriers or they eat one another.  She's had several from all different sources and bloodlines die from killing one another, several cats killed from that....but..she just keeps getting that breed like it's something special. 

I'm sure there are good ones out there but I've seen none of them in all my days and I'm old, so I'd say they are a rarity. 

 

[Triple Willow]

TW, You had good parents.  You're right, the responsibility should be put on the owners for bad dogs.  If people went to jail for what their dogs did and had to pay out the whazo things would change fast, like paying for someone's  plastic surgery, rehab or psyche counseling.  Those fees can be astronomical.  Shitty people who don't care about other people often a lot care about their pocket books!

I agree. Some people you can talk all day to but if you get in their money the light comes on for them real quick.

 

[Triple Willow]

Genetics plays a huge part in any breed of dog. I have had several Dobermans. All were nothing but big babies that loved everybody EXCEPT two that happened to be brother and sister. They were perfectly fine with me and my mom but anybody else, look out! They were all raised by me from around 8 weeks old, nothing different with those two. That line was just nasty.

On another note, these is a guy that had two dogs (lab/shepherd looking mixes) that were little angels at his house, even with small kids and cats. He started letting them run loose. He was warned that the neighbor had goats. His reply, "well if they cause a problem let me know". Less than two weeks later neighbor walked out about noon one day to a total blood bath, goats throats ripped out. The dogs were still there and just hanging out like they didnt do a thing in the world wrong. Moral of the story, just because they are sooo sweet and little angels at the owner's house, that doesn't mean that they won't be a killer next door. They have a mind of their own!

 

[Beekissed]

The misbehaving pits are the owners fault. I raised pits then switched to rescuing pits and before I got my Aussie, they were the best with loyalty. I've come across hundreds in my rescues and only 2 were not friendly towards other animals/cats after they were socialized. I never had to hit them once to train or get them to obey. If someone does, they don't need to own that breed because they can't handle it and will only add to the bad rap they have.
A pit has a bad rap because their owners don't think or follow thru on the necessity of owning a breed of dog with A. A bad reputation due to bad owners and B. An energy level that a normal person may find insane and C. Training. Not half butted "sit" / "fetch" but a constant training of "heel" "stay" & "wait" & "go home".
Small chihuahuas and Labs hold the human attack records, not Pits, pits just make the news.
Boredom, over crowding, not enough exercise will cause all of those issues.

I agree with both of these statements, except the whole chis and Labs holding the human attack records. The record of total bites recorded per a time period seem to indicate it has a lot to do with what breed is the most popular in that era...since Labs are pretty much a popular breed down through the years, it's likely they will show up on bite records due to sheer statistics because of their popularity as a breed and that is probably the same for the Chis. But the number of bites are not an issue with either of those breeds...as neither will persist in biting until someone is dead, severely maimed, etc. Nor is it too often you hear of someone leaving two labs together and come home to find one ripped to shreds and dead by the other one...that's not a behavior issue that can be trained out, that is an overly aggressive issue towards another animal that seems to be a specific breed trait, though not just specific to pits. In most of the data from studies comprised over the years, the German Shepherd dog seems to make the top breed in both types of bites, both in number of bites and in severity of bite.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/B...of-Breed-in-Dog-Bite-Risk-and-Prevention.aspx
http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/the-breeds-most-likely-to-kill.html
http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


I agree that it seems to be the weakest and most ill-equipped humans that seem to flock to owning the bigger, aggressive breed type dogs and I can only guess it's because in their weakness and fear they hope a fearless or aggressive reputation in their breed choice will make them appear more tough? Watch all the Cesar Milan series and you can instantly see how many pits show up on episodes and how many of those just have ineffectual owners who adopted this animal and don't have a clue in how to manage it~then blame it on their past "bad" life. Same with Rotties, German Shepherds, and wold hybrids. What were they thinking? If they can't even make a dog walk on a leash properly, why in the world do they even get these big dogs?

Of course, we don't want the FF thread to become a place of this kind of debate over pits as I've seen those get quite impassioned and the mods have to step in to cool it all down. I know people are very loyal to their breeds, no matter what breed they be, but the pit owners have a bigger tender spot to defend than most because their dogs are on everyone's list. I don't think they are misunderstood at all, as the facts and statistics don't lie....but I do think they are often in the hands of owners who cannot handle that type of breed. Same with the Chis..everyone thinks because they are small dogs that it's okay to let them snap and bite at people, poop all over the carpet, jump on people, yap their fool heads off, etc. How sad is it that this 3 lb dog can rule over a house full of humans? Imagine if the Chi breed was 100 lbs of dog.... and then you'd see the Chis on everyone's list as the most dangerous dog.