finding a horse trainer

[arabianequine]

She ate at least half of what I put out there maybe 2/3rds hard to tell all scattered around in 29 hours. I put the rest of that 100 pound bale out today. The stuff on the ground most in her shelter looks good enough she can eat still and its dry....she does not go to the bathroom in her shelter.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/livestocksystems/components/0480_03.html

So this web site is confusing me a bit.

In the bottom box says 2 year old 990 pounds 14.5 pounds for total daily feed. 30% concentrates and 70% roughage. I am sure she was at least getting that much a day in roughage....so was it that she was not getting the concentrates that made her under weight?

I am not sure what her weight is exactly....but I don't think more than 1000 pounds. It still says 14.5 pounds for daily total for 1000 pound 2 year old in training....just the concentrates and roughage are 50/50.

I understand it is winter and she was already a bit under weight.

Does every horse needs concentrates daily?

 

[michickenwrangler]

Depends on your quality of hay and work the horse is doing. A small amount of grain would help ensure she's getting all of her nutrition. The Great Lakes area is notoriously low in selenium and copper so we have to make sure our grain ration has adequate amounts.

You could always call the vet or your local ag extension office for advice. Horse nutrition isn't my forte but I know that you do have to factor in hay, type of hay, where it was grown and then look at grain and mineral blocks.

 

[Lotsapaints]

Once you get her weight up you normally don't need as much feed but when it gets cold I feed more hay so the horses keep warm if that's not enough then I add grain and I seldom ever feed as much as the bag says.....shredded beet pulp is another thing that's hard to over feed and it doesn't need to be soaked so it doesn't freeze or you can use alfalfa pellets right now it will take twice as much food for her to gain next year make sure she's carrying some fat not a lot but some like a 7 on the body score chart. When horses get a hay belly it means the hay is missing nutrients sometimes it is hard to find good hay that means some kind of bagged roughage needs to be added or better quality hay if you can get it.

 

[arabianequine]

When reffering to "hay" what do you mean grass hay, alfalfa?

I feed her green grass hay....I think it is a good quality. It is nice and green.

Stuff she did not eat was the lugems stems they are all over the ground of her shelter but she can they look fine still. My vet told me one time 1st cutting is the healthiest the stemy parts they don't like it as much but will eat it if hungry and thats all you give them. Everyone seems to like the 2nd cutting better for their horses. I just get whatever cutting is available at the time that is nice and clean green grass hay. I was told all she needs is grass hay because the protein and sugar in alfafa/grain will make her hyper and the protein if too much can cause other health problems.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Alfalfa is very mineral and vitamin rich which can be hard on a horse's kidneys and liver.

I would continue to feed grass hay/1st cutting, maybe a flake of alfalfa every other day in place of a flake of grass, offer a mineral block (with selenium if your area is deficient) and a small amount of daily grain.

 

[Lotsapaints]

If you don't test your hay which you wouldn't hay that looks good can still be missing nutrients I buy 2 truck and trailer loads of oat hay in the late summer feed it and see how my horses "do" on it I buy my hay from the same farmer every year and mine is "dryland farmed" in Ca we only get rain in the winter and early spring this years hay has more stems and grain because we had more rain you would think that it would be better than last years that had way less rain so shorter stemmed less grain on the heads but this years hay needs to be mixed with alfalfa or I need to feed a grain mix or my horses will loose weight and not look good so I paid less for this years hay but my costs will be the same because I have to add to it for it to supply my horses needs. Young horses almost always need extras they are growing just like baby chicks need different food than grown chickens. I was born and raised with horses I can just look and tell they need more or less of course when you ride them and brush them I'm always checking to see if their weight is correct along with many other things.

 

[dreamcatcherarabians]

My philosophy on youngsters is to pretty much feed them all they want of hay, I just buy a big round bale and set it in the pasture. 7 horses go through one 1600 lb round bale of good grass hay/week in winter. I also am very generous with the Omolene and Ultium. Here's a copy of the Omolene 200 feeding chart to give you an idea of how you would feed the concentrates portion of her ration. Remember, if your horse weighs appx 750 - 800 lbs (I'm just guessing from the pic you put up) and you want her to weigh 1,000 lbs, you would start out with only a little bit of Omolene until she got used to it, but then would increase until you were feeding the recommended amount for a horse weighing 1,000 lbs (the desired weight). If I think the horse could use more calories, I give Ultium Competition in addition to the Omolene because it's high in fat (12.4% vs 6% in the Omolene).

FEEDGUARD

NUTRITION SYSTEM Purina

Omolene #200

Horse FeedProduct OverviewFeatures / BenefitsGuaranteed AnalysisFeeding DirectionsTestimonials


For performance, breeding and growing horses. . . Purina

Omolene #200

Horse Feed contains the Purina

Amplify

Nugget, a patented, high-fat, extruded particle that contains a proprietary blend of vegetable oils, flax seed and rice bran for an optimal fatty acid profile. Instead of using straight cane molasses which is high in sugar, Purina

Omolene #200

Horse Feed contains a unique blend of molasses and soy oil for a higher fat molasses that horse love to eat.

Feed Form: Mixed Grains and Extruded Nuggets

Recommended For: Performance, breeding, mares in foal, lactating mares and yearlings.


FEATURES BENEFITS
Purina

Amplify

Nugget Patented, high fat, extruded particle that contains a proprietary blend of vegetable oils, flax seed and rice brand for an optimal fatty acid profile.

Vitamins and Minerals Provides 100% of the required nutrients for horses when fed as directed* so no additional supplements are necessary. *Based on “Nutrient Requirements of Horses Sixth Revised Edition – 2007” published by the National Research Council.


Incredibly Palatable Purina

Omolene #200

Horse Feed is an incredibly palatable diet which is excellent for horses who are picky eaters.

Natural Whole Grains Nutrient and calorie dense blend of natural whole grains for lower feeding rates and less risk of digestive upset. Whole grains are a natural source of antioxidants, phytochemicals and fiber.


Less Bricking Blended molasses help to prevent bricking in the winter and drying out in the summer.

Healthier Hair Coat Contains balanced nutrition and added vegetable oil to promote a shiny coat and healthy skin.


Feed with Hay or Pasture Purina

Omolene #200

Horse Feed is designed to be fed with hay and/or pasture.

Feed Guard

Nutrition System The FeedGuard

Nutrition System is one of the industry’s most innovative and exacting quality assurance programs. FeedGuard

Nutrition System can help deliver the trust, quality and performance that horse professionals demand every day.



CRUDE PROTEIN MIN 14.00 %
LYSINE MIN 0.70 %
CRUDE FAT MAX 6.00 %
CRUDE FIBER MIN 7.50 %
CALCIUM (CA) MIN 0.90 %
CALCIUM (CA) MAX 1.20 %
PHOSPHORUS MIN 0.50 %
COPPER (CU) MIN 55 PPM
SELENIUM (SE) MIN 0.60 PPM
ZINC (ZN) MIN 220 PPM
VITAMIN A MIN 3000 IU/LB
VITAMIN E MIN 130 IU/LB





Omolene #200

Performance horse feed



- WEIGHT OF HORSE IN POUNDS -
LIFESTYLE 600 800 1,000 1,200 1,400

Minimum Hay or Equivalent Pasture* 7.0 9.50 12.0 14.5 17.0
Omolene #200

Horse Feed (lbs/day)

Light Work 3.25 4.25 5.25 6.25 7.25
Moderate Work 4.25 5.75 7.25 8.50 10.00

Heavy Work 5.50 7.25 9.00 10.75 12.50
Very Heavy Work 8.00 10.75 13.50 16.00 18.75

Early Gestation (first 250 days) 2.25 3.00 3.75 4.25 5.00
Late Gestation (last 90 days) 3.25 4.25 5.50 6.50 7.50

Lactation (when fed seperately) 7.25 9.50 11.75 14.00 16.50
Breeding Stallion 4.00 5.00 6.25 7.50 8.75

So to weigh 1000 lbs your horse needs a MINIMUM of 12 lbs hay or roughage and 5.75 lbs of Omolene 200/day. Unless my horses are actively in performance or halter training I use the moderate work amount for horses that need to gain weight, light work to maintain.

Here's the link to the Hennecke Body Scoring System, it explains exactly how to score your horse. I prefer my horses a 6-7 score. http://www.habitatforhorses.org/rescues/bodyscoring.html

If you de-wormed your mare 3 months ago with Ivermectin, I'd use Safeguard or Panacur this time. Next time I'd use one of the combo de-wormers (2 months from now, so if you de-worm on Dec 1, then do it again on Feb 1) and then Ivermectin again (2 months from then, April 1). If you pick up your pasture, before I de-wormed again after the Ivermectin, I'd have the vet do a fecal count and advise which de-wormer (if any) he thought would be the most effective for you. Since you only have 1 horse, if you pick up the pasture after her you should very shortly not need to de-worm as often as someone with several horses. If you don't pick up your pasture, then it might take a bit longer to get there, but eventually I'd think you could cut back to de-worming twice/year if she remains your only horse.

More ???, I'll be happy to try to help you. I've been through and through the feeding and moving areas and switching hays and feeds and having my horses look great and then look like cr*p and then figuring out how to get them back to great again. It can be very frustrating.

 

[arabianequine]

Thank you....

What is the difference in the omolene 200 and omolene 400? Once she is not showing ribs after winter.....I will lay off some feed a bit. Why is it necessary to have the concentrates.....I was told at one time is all she needed was grass hay she was younger then. Whole oats filled her out really nice when she was under a year....looked like a totally different horse after....I gave that for about 6 months not much but some with a little oil on it. Which or both of these concentrates you think I should give her now through the winter? By both I mean the omolene 200 and the ultium. What do you think about giving the whole oats? Is alfalfa what she should be on instead of grass hay? I was told alfalfa was too high in protein could cause health problems and make her hyperier then she already can be or is?

What do you mean by combo wormer?

I don't pick up after her pasture it is huge 2-3 acres....but we do in the shelter and right in the front of her pasture by gate etc. and she eats out of the tire that does not get moved. She is the only horse now since March of this year. She does try and graze around the pasture or did before.

Funny you say that about the feeding and looking crappy....because the same day I took the pic I posted that is of her right side shows her ribs but to me all the other ones of her left side I took that day look really good to me. I only have that one of the right side that shows her rib area. Here is a link to some more pics I took that day. So based on that link of the body scale for horse.....I think she is a four based on that one pic showing her ribs right? I don't understand why the left side looks so good and then the one right sided pic shows her ribs?

http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s85/ronnysplymouth/Misc/

 

[2pinkmom]

Someone who knows more than I do will come along soon, but I'll take a stab at your questions.
- I doubt you need alfalfa hay. Most horses are just fine on good grass hay.
- concentrates are used to add calories to the diet, and/or ensure that the horse is getting the appropriate amounts of the essential vitamins and minerals.
- this may vary from place to place, but I haven't seen anyone feeding oats by themselves in a long time. Most folks here have gone over to textured or pelleted feed. Textured feed usually contains oats. The amout of molasses added to textured feed should't be enough to make a horse "hot", as you seem to be worried about. It is just for palatability. I would think that straight oats would "heat" a horse right up, though. Ever heard the expression "feeling his oats?"
- a combo wormer is a product that contains more than one type of wormer.
- two-three acres isn't a "huge" pasture to my mind. You can deworm her without picking it up, but it just take longer. But it isn't such a big pasture that one horse in there full time wouldn't create a worm load.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Honestly I strongly believe that your best bet is just good hay (or in the summer, good pasture) plus a ration balancer that's appropriate for your hay type (grass or alfalfa) and your region. That's a pelletized concentrate but you only feed a very little of it, as per directions on the bag. I currently like "All Phase" ration balancer from Kentucky Equine Research, but that is for my middle-aged-to-elderly horses on not real good grass hay in a somewhat Se-deficient area. You would want to look at whether that, or soemthing else, is best for your particular situation; and also of course it depends what your feedstore carries or will order. SOMEthing like that, anyhow.

I suggest using a good balancer pellet rather than grain, especially for a young horse, because grain is by no means guaranteed to fix deficiency problems (grain in selenium-deficient regions can be selenium-deficient, for instance) and it is much easier to unknowingly perpetuate or worsen nutrient imbalances that way.

The chief reason why it is customary for books and extension services etc to recommend significant amounts of grain or pellets for young horses is just that there is such a strong long tradition of FEEDING horses that way. Does not mean it is necessarily the best thing to do, just that people are gonna do it ANYhow so they need guidelines. Same goes for any age -- that table you linked to gives what IMO are usually unnecessarily high amounts of concentrates for all ages (except adult maintenance). And anyhow, horses vary so much that I am not keen on the idea of one recipe fits all.

Pat