finding a horse trainer

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Mornin! First, let me apologize if you thought I meant your horse looked crappy, I totally didn't. I was referring to my adventures in trying to find a feed program that suited my horses and at one point I had several who were eating me out of house and home and still looked like refugees from Auschwitz.


Your horse has a lovely long neck and big gorgeous eyes and I'm first drawn to her neck and it looks thin to me, both sides. On the right she's kind of 'stretched' and the lighting and angle are a bit different than on the left. The left is a more natural pose that, to me anyway, more accurately reflects what the horse looks like. It's hard trying to tell someone how to feed without being able to put your hands on the horse in all the places and do your own Hennecke scoring. Based on pics alone, I'd score your horse in approximately the 4-5 range. One thing that I see, and btw is a hard one to fill in, is the concave look to her flanks on the left side. Once you get that flank and hip filled in, then your horse will probably be more in the 5-6 range. Her hip bone seems to be a little pointy to me as well, but I'm not sure on camera angles there.

The difference between Omolene 200 & 400 is that 400 is designed to be a complete feed and 200 is a calorie dense supplement, both meet their minimum daily requirements for Vitamins & Minerals. I started with the 400 because the hay here in OK just is not up to the standards I'm used to from CA and AZ. I have always fed a little alfalfa with good bermuda grass, or straight alfalfa in AZ because I was right in the middle of Alfalfa fields and could get awesome alfalfa for $4/bale and grass was $14/bale. When feeding a lot of alfalfa hay, I supplemented with a grass hay pellet and beet pulp to balance the calcium and phosphorus intake. The grass hay out here is cheap compared to AZ & CA but it's just not as nice. This is cattle country and finding good grass hay is pretty difficult. Also, I have a couple of OLD horses who have a hard time chewing grass, so dampened 400 was perfect for them. They did better on it than on Senior feed, go figure.

Since you seem to have a good supply of grass hay, meeting their forage requirements with the feed isn't really an issue for you, so the 200 seems like it would meet your needs. You also feed consdierably less of it than you do of the 400 because they expect you to give XX amount of hay for the forage, so I think it might end up being more affordable.

Anytime you ask a horse person for an opinion on anything, but especially feeding, you're going to get a bunch of folks who think their way is the only way and have very strong opinions. So let me say that:

A) if feeding nothing but grass hay ends up working for you, then great, but I'd keep a bag of something (oats, corn, beet pulp) so you could give a complete vitamin supplement and minerals because grass hay doesn't usually have EVERYTHING they need. That's why in the wild they would travel a bit and eat grasses, flowers, bark off trees, various things to balance their diets. Now that they are in our care and we restrict their movement, it's up to us to provide everything they need to be healthy. I've tried the 'they only need grass theory' and it doesn't work for me.

B) if you find something local that you like better or as well as Purina, and it's more economical for you, that's great too. I'm only using Purina as an example because of all the feeds I've had personal experience with, I like it the best and have had the best results. It's also usually pretty universally available.

C) Oats. I love oats, but again, you need to provide vits & mins to make things balanced. I gave up because I had too many horses to design a diet for everyone and it took me hours to get done feeding all my horses. So, I prefer a supplement that has the oats, corn, barley, vits, mins and all, right in it.

D) Don't forget to either add at least 1 oz of salt to your horses ration or provide salt licks for her. That's regardless of which feed you decide to use.

E) Ration Balancers. Those are great if you can get them. I live in the middle of a horse feed wasteland and nobody carries them. My choices are Purina, Nutrena and the local mills floor sweepings after they make the cow feed. A ration balancer could work for you if you have access to them. Again, I'm only recommending what I'm familiar with and know works.

F) Weigh your feed, especially the concentrates to make sure you're giving consistant servings. You'd be amazed at how much different feeds vary in volume for the weight. Smart Pak has a measure that looks like a tall cup and is marked for pelleted and texturized feeds and I've found it to be reasonably accurate. Coffee cans are notoriously inaccurate.

G) Ultium. I love this stuff. It's high fat which means you can put weight on fast and they love it. None of these feeds should make the horse silly, I feed my stallion a full ration of 400, plus a couple pounds of Ultium to keep him really tip top for showing and he's a piece of cake to handle. I would only feed the Ultium if your horse doesn't seem to be filling in the way you want her too or if you should decide to start showing. Ultium is NOT cheap, I pay $26/50 lb bag and I've heard that it's more in other parts of the country. Since you only feed a pound or 2/day it's not prohibitive but if you don't need it, why use it? The 200 will probably be at least $10/bag less expensive than the Ultium.

Combo de-wormers are Zimectrin Gold, Quest Plus and I'm sure there are several others, but those are the 2 I can usually get my hands on. Zimectrin Gold is Ivermectin/Praziquantel and Quest Plus is Moxidectin/Praziquantel (I think on both of them). If you're not comfortable with Moxidectin, that's the one in Quest that got such a bad rap because people don't follow dosing directions, then use the Zimectrin Gold. I rotate both of them and use the Quest Plus in fall and Zimectrin Gold in spring. The key is to not use anything too much because the worms are building up resistance to the various ingredients.

Picking up your pasture is not a requirement, but if you don't then I'd expect it to take a year or 2 of de-worming every 2 months RELIGOUSLY to get the worm load down to the point where you could cut back to de-worming only once or twice per year based on fecal analysis. If you pick up your pasture, then I'd expect that to speed up significantly. The only reasons to go with the fecal analysis and de-worming only when indicated are the worms resistance to several of the de-wormers on the market and the lessening of the need to feed a poison to your horse on a regular basis.

Remember that your horse is only 2 and in Arabians that is still considered a baby. She will have growth spurts until she is 5 years or so and meeting her caloric and nutritional needs during this time is really important for her to reach her full potential.
 
I agree, Ultium is a great feed. It puts weight on a horse quickly, and my 'boring' sorrel filly shines like a copper penny on it. It also seems to be very palatable.

Strategy is also a good feed.
 
Well it seems I am getting some hay tomorrow and it is half grass half alfalfa....same supplier just what he has right now. Still give free choice for the winter?

I will look for the omolene 200....and feed this per instructions only in addition to hay---for at least the winter?

She does have a Selenium trace mineral block out there all the time.....I just bought one that still needs to go out there cause hardly any left of the other and outside and snow on it now....but she still licks it.....so do the wild birds
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we do have a shortage of selenium here.

I did not think you meant my horse looked crappy. I knew what you meant. I think I worded that wrong. I was just referencing that and to the pics and what others were saying sorry....also cause I had just relooked at her pics was confusing to me the differences in side to side that day.

I was looking at the pic that everyone was so appalled of her ribs showing and looked at others from the same day but the left side and did not look all that bad to me....but I did not like the fact her ribs were showing at all.

She did have free choice for at least a year thats what someone said she needed maybe not taking into account she is arab not a qh or other....I don't know....but I do see your point with arabs growing slow, makes sense. She is dipping in in the flank type area right before her hips too....but I think what looks like a bit of pointedness with hip joint is winter hair coming in but just maybe be a bit pointy under there if others are a bit low too.

Is it your opinion that whole oats would make her "hotter"? With the selenium trace mineral block and oats be the same or is something missing still that the omolene provides?

I thought horses can't have straight corn some use it but some said it can bind them up give colic in large quantities? Maybe fresh is what I heard? I know there is a little in grain but not like giving it straight and not fresh.
 
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The way I like to feed the hay is to toss a couple large flakes out morning and night. I just make sure they are at least 5 lbs per flake. With the alfalfa/grass mix I'd not worry too much about the free feeding. If she starts to pick up too much weight, you can always cut back on the 200.

Oats are high in carbs which means they raise blood sugar and give lots of energy, corn chops too. The other thing about oats is to watch your calcium to phosphorous ratio, just like when you feed bran or beet pulp. That's one of the reasons I like the 200, it's a balanced ration and won't give too much of any one mineral. Too much calcium can cause enteroliths (stones) and too much phosphorous can leach calcium from the bones. I like the 200 also because it adds all the necessary vitamins so you don't need to feed a multi-vit, so I find it's actually more cost effective than feeding just oats or corn or bran and then adding the stuff it needs to balance.

I used to feed Alfalfa hay, $13/bale x 3 bales/mo per horse $39
Grass hay, $11/bale x 3 bales/mo per horse 33
oats $ 8/bag x 1 bag/mo/horse 8
corn chops $ 8/bag " 8
beet pulp $ 8/bag " 8
multi vits $26/5 lbs appx 30 oz/mo/horse 13
mineral $26/50lbs " 2
$ 111/horse/month (this was back in 2004!) so $777 for 7 horses back then


I now feed round bale $40/1600 lbs x 3/month/7 horses $17
omolene 400 $13/40 lb bag x 50 bags/month/7 horses 91
ultium $26/50 lb bag x 3 bags/month/3 horses 26
omolene 300 $15/50 lb bag x 4 bags/month/2 young horses 30


So for the 2 older horses and stallion, I'm paying appx $131/month/horse 393
the 2 young ones 138/month/horse 276
the 2 5 year olds 108/month/horse 216

$885 for 7 horses in 2010

My feed bill has only gone up $108 per month in 7 years and most of that is in the last 2 months. I was paying $8/bag for the Omolene 400 until October, when corn started going up. My per bag cost on the 400 has gone up $5/bag in 2 months. Times 50 bags, that's a big increase, so I've found other ways to economize and still meet the horses needs.

Is all of this making sense to you? Or am I just babbling? One of my horses broke my husband's arm tonight, so I'm kind of in vapor lock right now. Working with youngsters and being inattentive just breeds disaster.


***eta*** I would feed the 200 year round, but once she reaches a good weight, then you can cut back on how much you need to feed to maintain the weight. If she gets too round, you can cut it out, but then I'd add something that you can give her a handful of that you can put salt, and vitamins in. If you know you're selenium poor, I'd be willing to bet you're poor in other things too and would not count on the grass to meet all her needs.
 
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The grain mix includes vitamin premix and selenium and other minerals feeding plain oats is not bad just will not give her other stuff she might need and yes you can still free choice the new mixed hay until her weight is where you like it then you might cut back on the grain I do not think she will gain too much though and feeding hay free choice is a good thing in the winter unless your horse gets obese which I don't think will happen either. I think you are doing a wonderful job trying to take care of your horse it's early in the winter and her weight should pick up quickly I hope you can post another picture of her in a month you'll be surprised yourself.
 
Thank you lotsofpaints....I will post another pic after the new year but not sure what we can see with her in her woolies but will sure see if we can see a difference. We got the ones of her in the snow on this thread from the other day too in her full woolie suit. Would be best to compare to since that is the way her fur/hair will still look in a month.

@ dreamcatcher sorry to hear about the accident not fun for sure for anyone....tell your husband best wishes on mending that up.....I am glad I have been so lucky to not have ever broken anything before, knock on wood. I seen a girl do a cart wheel when I was about 12 and her arm broke, elbow gave out, is what it looked like really gross.

I do have a selenium trace mineral/vit. block out there for her at all times.....she will get some of the vit. and minerals from that right or does she need more on top of that? Once she is back to good weight will she still need the 200 for the vit./minerals, if she gets enough minerals/vit. from the salt block?

I understand what your saying. For now I will try and get the 200 or equivalent brand per instructions.....and the grass/alfalfa mix free choice. Will it be ok just to start giving the new hay or should I mix some in with the old?
 
It sounds like you are doing a really good job! If you are getting new hay, I would mix it with the old in the beginning, then gradually give more of the new. You will find your filly will pick out all the alfalfa first and leave the grass, so it may look like some is left over. If she is wasteing all the grass part, bump up her complete feed and give a little less hay untill she cleans up the grass portion too. I find hay that is 50/50 grass alfalfa gets a wasted a little more.

Is her attitude getting better for you?

Keep up the good work!!
 
Are you able to spread her hay around the property so she is able to graze rather then stand in one spot all day if she wants to eat?

From the pics, it doesn't look like there is anything for her to graze on. Maybe cross fence with the hot wire so you can let half the pasture rest and grow something. Maybe sprinkle a good mix of seeds this spring when temps warm up.

When I had my two girls, I would go out and throw several flakes all around so they had to go graze for their hay.
 
Thank you, yes she has only snaked once, no rearing, and no jerking her head away.....well not as drastic as before. She will let me pet her all over her head and neck now while she eats. She will lean over the fence and follow me and watch and let me pet her then go get another bite and come back and watch and let me pet her some more. I like that.

Shes already wasting now.....she leaves all the real stemy stuff.
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I have been checking her food once a day. Right when I give her new hay she puts her head and nose way in it and ruffles it all around to get the good stuff and alot goes on the ground but she cleans it up pretty good.....except that first time I put 3/4 of a 100 pound bale out there it was too much at once and it got all over the ground. She has never totally cleaned it up but pretty good it is her new night night spot self made and thats ok.

That is what I was gonna do is with new hay mix some into the old but wanted to make sure that was the way to do it. Yeah my vet said that about legumes the real stemy stuff it is better for them but they don't like it as much.
 

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