Five-month old Australorp suddenly lame. Update: Now another pullet going lame!

[HiEverybirdy]

Thanks for sharing your experience and your thought process, @azygous. Great thread. Sending healing thoughts to you and your flock.

 

[Allsfairinloveandbugs]

Hi while you are waiting for casportpony to respond, wanted to add the following. I read back through a lot of old threads re denagard this morn. The cc/ml dose translates to 3 teaspoons/gallon of water for treatment for 5 days. And then 1 and 1/2 teaspoons/gallon as monthy preventative for 3 days. Some people said they used denagard for as long as 7-10 days. Like ivermectin, tiamulin (denagard) has a broad safety margin. Treated water needs to be changed out daily. Also, denagard med is very bitter, so many recommend adding juice, honey or sugar to water to hide the bitter taste. You are dealing with an additional "problem" right now, which is that due to cold temps, your girls arent drinking nearly as much. Adding treated water to make a mash for them to eat will deliver more med to them. Adding treated water to delicious treats even better! And this. My very favorite pullet at the time got Very sick with classic mg respiratory symptoms. She was too sick to want to eat or drink. I took her to work with me in a dog crate for 3 days straight, and syringed water into her throat every 2 hours. After 3 days she turned the corner, and all symptoms disappeared within a week. (I never tried tylan injections on her because tylan didnt work on other pullets). But in reading through old threads this morn, one poster said denagard did NOT work as initial treatment, even though it did work as a monthly preventative, and her chickens never showed symptoms again. That poster said tylan injections were effective as initial treatment. So while waiting for denagard to arrive, u are certainly doing no harm giving tylan. Best case scenario tylan alleviates the symptoms.
Two final points. 1) Avoid giving denagard with some anti-coccidials, as a negative reaction may occur. Amprolium/tiamulin combo IS safe to give.
2) A synergistic effect has been shown to occur in studies when tiamulin was given along with tetracycline. Azygous, you may have already read and researched all the above info (and more), but above info may hopefully help those in future who discover this thread.

 

[azygous]

@Allsfairinloveandbugs thank you so much for adding so much good information to this thread. It's a huge help. This why BYC is such a resource. So many experienced people contribute.

It dawned on me already that Corid isn't compatible with this treatment the pullets are getting. I've been giving them B-complex and that would be pointless with Corid. There's only a minuscule chance they have any coccidia issues. My worming of the entire flock yesterday has produced zero worms.

I ordered some Doxycycline last night along with the Denagard just to have a variety of antibiotics on hand so I have the option of treating gram negative and gram positive bacteria. So, am I correct in understanding that the two can be safely used together for greater effect?

 

[texsuze]

Another BYC'er following this thread closely. Not trying to hijack but Jolene, my first Black Australorp hen, (Marek's vaccinated as a chick) developed a limp in 2019, just as described within this thread. Vet said "arthritis, with crepitus..." but didn't mention and didn't test for MS. I eventually had to send her to the Rainbow Bridge; horrible. She was my best buddy. Jolene was 9 years old, my oldest hen.

Now my BA hen, Fay, (Marek's vaccinated as a chick) is progressively barely able to walk. Eating, pooping, drinking, preening, though losing weight. Fay is 3 1/2 years old.

I have Tylosin soluble, Tylan 50 injectable, and Corid powder ALL expired by 2-3 years. Also have a bottle of Denegard (expired). In your opinions, should I start begin treating Fay with any (which) of my expired drugs until I can get her to a vet? Sorry to interrupt, but the trials and tribulations of Azygous are hitting close to home. Thanks in advance.

 

[azygous]

@texsuze welcome aboard! You and others with lame chickens are why I'm documenting my experiences by creating this thread. Lameness is one thing that has totally stumped me ever since I started my flock over thirteen years ago. One of the first chickens I began my flock with by adopting them after their owner died had all the same symptoms as my first Australorp pullet Jules. Looking back, that first hen very likely had MS. If so, MS has been in my flock a very long time.

You're lucky to have all those meds. Ignore the expiration date. Most antibiotics are effective well beyond that date. I ignore expiration dates on just about everything. Well, within reason.

I suggest you start your symptomatic birds on the Denagard. Please feel free to post whatever effects you observe. It will not only help me, but it will be a big help to others.

Any science experiment needs multiple test subjects to really tell us something. We're in this together, and it's comforting to know I have company.

 

[texsuze]

Many thanks, Azy. Heading to the barn now to work on dispensing the Denegard. Interesting that Australorps seem to be the principally affected breed. My two groups of BAs were from two different sources at two different time periods, acquired as two different age groups.

Looking back in hindsight (when I was way more 'stoopid' about biohazard management ) I suspect I know who the initial carrier was: Ruby, a red star hen I brought in to be a surrogate friend for one of my girls whose buddy was taken by a fox.

 

[Sally PB]

You and others with lame chickens are why I'm documenting my experiences by creating this thread.

All my chickens are healthy, as far as I know, thank goodness. I have three BA pullets and one BO cockerel.

Interesting that Australorps seem to be the principally affected breed.

Ohhhh.... they are such sweet birds....

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that I am following this thread and learning so much. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

[Eggcessive]

I think it is routine to give tylosin and doxycycline together, but I don’t know why one would give Denagard/tiamulin with doxy. Carol, have you seen any swollen hocks or leg joints in your chickens who were lame? That is usually a sign of MS. I think it can be hard to treat MS with antibiotics if it has been going on for awhile. Here is an article about MS:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/mycoplasmosis/mycoplasma-synoviae-infection-in-poultry

 

[azygous]

@Eggcessive no swelling, no blistering, no respiratory symptoms in any of my flock that have turned up lame over the years. Just sudden onset of lamness that in previous cases deteriorated to near total paralysis, including the first Australorp pullet in another thread that I euthanized when she reached near total paralysis.

The first pullet I treated only for a leg injury. The second one, the one that began this thread was treated with amoxicillin from the first sign of symptoms. She was acting sick besides being lame. The amoxy seemed to improve her "sick" behavior, she's gained strength, but is still unable to use the leg except to help her balance as she moves about. The third pullet is currently puffed up and not feeling well, and it now appears both legs are affected, although she isn't completely lame and can walk if she takes it slowly. If she tries to run, she loses her balance and tumbles.

Currently, these two pullets are getting Tylan 50 orally twice a day. It seems to be preventing the symptoms from getting worse. So far, anyway.

I ordered Doxycycline and Denagard to have a choice just in case things start going south. I read that Denagard might help Su-su arthritis if it's caused by MS. By searching for patterns and connecting dots, I arrived at the suspicion that the pullets probably got this from Su-su since she's been feeding them and sharing her saliva with them since they were three weeks old. My other slightly old EE pullets are unaffected, but they don't have contact with Su-su to the extent the current pullets have.

 

[Eggcessive]

@TwoCrows is more an expert on MS than I, but I doubt if you could tell if there was MS in those birds without a PCR blood test or a necropsy with testing. Zoologix will send swabs to self test for MS and MG, but the price may not be worth it to many. State vets may be less.
http://www.zoologix.com/avian/Datasheets/Mycoplasma.htm