Fodder Question?

[WannaBeHillBilly]

I won't see those temps until May, typically. But that's just life here. One advantage we have here in Minnesota is that we have all 4 seasons to enjoy - Winter, June, July, and August. Or, if you are a hockey fan, we have 9 months of good ice followed by 3 months of indoor skating only.....

My wife couldn't bare the heat in Texas (Houston) anymore and wanted to move somewhere where it isn't so hot during the summer and her first choice was Minnesota… I had a really hard time to convince her that she would hate the cold winters there equally.

 

[AgnesGray]

This is my first winter with chickens, and I have learned a number of lessons. I plan on building an A Frame type of removable panels so I can make an area in the chicken run that is not 3 feet high in snow. I imagine the panels to be made out of a wooden frame, using some wire to hold it together and provide some strength, and then covered with a clear plastic to keep the snow out. The A Frame design should let the snow slide off and down the plastic. The plastic covered sides should act like a mini greenhouse and keep it just a bit warmer inside the A Frame if the sun is shinning. Anyway, that's my current thinking.

One thing I did do right was assume that my chickens would not want to go outside in the run covered with snow. I built my chicken coop about twice the size recommended for the number of chickens I have (I have almost 8 square feet per bird in the coop). This has worked out good because my chickens have rarely gone outside this winter. But there is easily 2 feet of snow in the chicken run and drifts about 3 feet high.

More to the issue of winter feeding fodder, for where I live, is that it has really worked out much better for me to let the fodder bin(s) dry out for the last day or two in a sunny window and then feed the fodder to the chickens. Previously, my fresh, green, damp fodder directly from the fodder tower froze like a green iceberg in our temps this winter and the chickens would not eat frozen fodder. So drying out the bin for that last day or two, and cutting back to half a bin of fodder per morning, was just the right combination of adjustments needed for my 10 chcikens.

I like the A-frame idea! This is my first winter with chickens (and ducks) and regardless of having done a ton of research beforehand, I'm definitely learning as I go!

On the subject of fodder.... the tagless oats I got from the second store actually sprouted yesterday! After days of rinsing, I covered them with a paper towel and sprayed it with my garden mister like I would with melons or squash. Sure enough, they finally sprouted. So all is not lost on that second 50# bag. Next time will definitely try for something a little less high maintenance though. And will take your suggestion of drying it out in the sun before sending it out into freezing temps.

I tried to talk my husband into moving somewhere with cooler temps like MN or AK. I haven't given up... maybe I should mention the perks of having ice 9 months a year like hockey and... ice fishing?

 

[gtaus]

On the subject of fodder.... the tagless oats I got from the second store actually sprouted yesterday! After days of rinsing, I covered them with a paper towel and sprayed it with my garden mister like I would with melons or squash. Sure enough, they finally sprouted. So all is not lost on that second 50# bag. Next time will definitely try for something a little less high maintenance though. And will take your suggestion of drying it out in the sun before sending it out into freezing temps.

I soak my barley seeds for 12 hours in the fodder bin. When I soaked my oat seeds for 12 hours, I had very disappointing germination results with the oats. @WannaBeHillBilly experimented more with oat seeds and reported that he had best germination rates with oat seeds only soaked for 2 hours. So, it appears that I was soaking my oat seeds too long at 12 hours. If you have read my article on the fodder tower, it does take about 3-4 days before you really start to see any sprouting going on in the bins. But boy, do they take off after that 4th day.

If I did not have to deal with freezing temps outside, I'd just take my fodder bins off the tower and feed it directly to the chickens. But, like I said, the fodder froze into a green ice berg before the chickens had a chance to eat it all. So, for me, drying out the bin(s) in a sunny window for the last few days really works well, and the grass turns a darker green in the sunlight, another bonus.

I like the A-frame idea! This is my first winter with chickens (and ducks) and regardless of having done a ton of research beforehand, I'm definitely learning as I go!

Yes, I too have been learning a lot this winter and will be some things different next year. The A-frame design just seems easier to build, and more importantly, is probably less maintenance needed because it should shed the snow better than any of the other designs I have considered. There is about a foot and a half of snow on top of my chicken coop, but that roof was designed to carry that load. That much snow out in the chicken run would collapse most of the light weight designed roofs that I was considering. So, someone suggested an A-frame design because it sheds off snow better than other types of roofing.

 

[AgnesGray]

I soak my barley seeds for 12 hours in the fodder bin. When I soaked my oat seeds for 12 hours, I had very disappointing germination results with the oats. @WannaBeHillBilly experimented more with oat seeds and reported that he had best germination rates with oat seeds only soaked for 2 hours. So, it appears that I was soaking my oat seeds too long at 12 hours. If you have read my article on the fodder tower, it does take about 3-4 days before you really start to see any sprouting going on in the bins. But boy, do they take off after that 4th day.

I will try this on my next tray. Now that I'm seeing some action, I'm trying to start a pan (or two) every day. The pan I soaked yesterday and put a paper towel over just overnight already has sprouts so hopefully I can get some decent growth from these afterall. I sent the fodder tower article to hubby the day it came out. Hopefully will build one this weekend. What a great setup!

Yes, I too have been learning a lot this winter and will be some things different next year. The A-frame design just seems easier to build, and more importantly, is probably less maintenance needed because it should shed the snow better than any of the other designs I have considered. There is about a foot and a half of snow on top of my chicken coop, but that roof was designed to carry that load. That much snow out in the chicken run would collapse most of the light weight designed roofs that I was considering. So, someone suggested an A-frame design because it sheds off snow better than other types of roofing.

That's quite a bit of snow! We used to get snow like that in Italy, but not so much here in Ohio. Years ago, it apparently snowed more than it does lately. I miss it, but I'm pretty sure the birds are glad it does not snow quite that much. You planned well to have such ample space for them inside!

 

[gtaus]

That's quite a bit of snow! We used to get snow like that in Italy, but not so much here in Ohio.

I was stationed in Naples, Italy for 2 years, but we never got any snow accumulation. If/When it did snow, it melted almost right away. You must have been further north or in the mountain area.

The pan I soaked yesterday and put a paper towel over just overnight already has sprouts so hopefully I can get some decent growth from these afterall.

I don't use any towels over my soaked grains, and they seem to sprout just fine in the bins. I put about 1/2 inch of dry grain in the bin, let it soak, and then just let it all grow into a nice mat and grass blades.

Do you think putting a towel over the grain helps any? I have honestly never tried it, but, I am getting good results without using any towels over the grain.

 

[AgnesGray]

I was stationed in Naples, Italy for 2 years, but we never got any snow accumulation. If/When it did snow, it melted almost right away. You must have been further north or in the mountain area.



I don't use any towels over my soaked grains, and they seem to sprout just fine in the bins. I put about 1/2 inch of dry grain in the bin, let it soak, and then just let it all grow into a nice mat and grass blades.

Do you think putting a towel over the grain helps any? I have honestly never tried it, but, I am getting good results without using any towels over the grain.

Yeah, I was in the Alps up near Switzerland. Good food and weather down near Naples!

I don't recommend anyone that doesn't have to put paper towels on the grains to sprout them. If I was getting the oats to sprout otherwise, I'd not want to mess with it. And I really don't plan to buy oats again if I can find wheat, barley, or rye. It's what I would suggest anyone in my situation do though, to get a low germ rate grain to sprout if already stuck with a bunch of it.

 

[gtaus]

Yeah, I was in the Alps up near Switzerland. Good food and weather down near Naples!

I don't recommend anyone that doesn't have to put paper towels on the grains to sprout them. If I was getting the oats to sprout otherwise, I'd not want to mess with it. And I really don't plan to buy oats again if I can find wheat, barley, or rye. It's what I would suggest anyone in my situation do though, to get a low germ rate grain to sprout if already stuck with a bunch of it.

I have many good memories of living in Europe, and was fortunate enough to one time go skiing at a place in the Alps that borders France, Italy, and Switzerland. I skied from France, to Italy, to Switzerland and got my passport stamped in each country. Very good memories of that ski trip.

As far as growing oat fodder, I had bad luck with my oat seeds. My barley seeds have about 95% germination rate, but my oat seeds maybe had about 25% at best. Very disappointing results. So I gave up on trying to grow oat fodder. However, @WannaBeHillBilly had much better results with oats when he limited the soaking time to only 2 hours. Evidently, soaking oats seeds for 12 hours (like for my barley seeds) was too long and drowned the seeds. He had much better results with soaking oat seeds for just 2 hours.

The nice thing about trying different grain seeds, is that even if the fodder results are poor, you can still mix the grain seed in with your chicken scratch and still feed it to your flock. Nothing needs to be wasted. That's what I did with my oat seeds, just mixed it into my chicken scratch.

I have great results with barley, which I can get locally. Others have reported good results with wheat seed. And the only one I know that seems to get good results from oat seeds is @WannaBeHillBilly who took the extra time to experiment with various soaking times.

 

[AgnesGray]

You probably skiied through my town in the Aosta region!

I appreciate all of the info shared about trials run on various grains. I am going to try 2 hours soaking this evening and see how that goes.

 

[WannaBeHillBilly]

Yes, @gtaus is correct: After soaking for more than 4 hours less than 1% of the Oats i bought sprouted. 2 hours turned out to be the best, but even then the germination rate is below 50%, maybe those oats are just bad (?) but i've found several sources on the internet claiming that whole oats, sold to us are different from what is called »seed oats«. It seems that the seed industry has us in their grips…
For now i'm focussing on Wheat fodder as it had the best results, in about 4 days i will have the first of my numbered fodder bins ready, so i have the correct ratio for the grain to fodder conversion. I was a bit sloppy in the past… now i'm tracking everything in Google: Fodder-Table.
The second best grain for me was Rye and i will do some more experiments with that later and those will be documented in my table. Still unable to bye any barley here, the brewery and the distillery can't sell, as they either get the already malted barley (brewery) or bulk delivery in silo-trucks (distillery).
For my ducks i would have to soak the grains until they are really soft, meaning over 24 hours, otherwise they won't eat them. I will definitely grow some patches of Oats, Rye and Alfalfa this year, just for the fun to see them growing and maybe harvesting some of my own grains… or i just let the ducks have it… dunno yet.

 

[gtaus]

now i'm tracking everything in Google: Fodder-Table.

You are bringing out my inner nerd with that spreadsheet! Great job.

When I was experimenting with barley seeds, I make a chart similar to your fodder spreadsheet, but I just did it on some scratch paper. No matter what method you use, it's important to track results based on the various soaking times because the fodder yield is greatly affected by that initial soaking time. Anyway, for barley, I found a 12 hour soak time was the best.

If I had control over the temps, that would be another variable to experiment with in growing fodder. But since I essentially had no control of the temp in my garage (no heating/no cooling), I only experimented with soaking times.

I hope you post your wheat fodder results once your experiment has finished. I can get wheat seed locally, but my local mill already told me that their customers report better results with barley seeds for fodder. And barley seed is cheaper than wheat seed where I live. Still, I might be interested in trying to grow wheat fodder some day. There are many people who are interested in growing wheat fodder as they might not have local supplies of barley, for example.

Oats i bought sprouted. 2 hours turned out to be the best, but even then the germination rate is below 50%, maybe those oats are just bad (?)

As I have said, my oat seed germination was maybe about 25%. But I only tried a 12 hour soak and as you have reported, that was too long. But my chickens ate it all up, so nothing was wasted. It just did not make good fodder for me. My local mill tells me that their customers who have tried to grow oat fodder have been disappointed in the results compared to barley fodder. So I doubt you got bad oat seed, I think it might just be harder to grow oat fodder.