Genetic Hackle Eggs

[Bross63]

Sounds cool! Do you keep them heated? I think I remember you mentioning you live in the Northeast.

dheltzel may do things differently, so I’ll be interested in hearing his reply, but I don’t provide any heat for my genetic hackle birds in the winter. They are a large and very robust bird, and I have found mine to possess great vigor as well.

I have read one hackle breeder’s speculation that extreme cold temperatures may help to prompt a more dense feathering over many, many generations as an adaptation by the birds to the environment in which they are raised. I won’t contradict this idea because I have no way of knowing if it has merit or not, so I’ll put it out there for you to consider and apply your own reasoning and form your own opinion.

I have a hypothesis I’m going to hopefully test this coming fall/winter when I expect to have the appropriate numbers of siblings from multiple matings with different cocks and hens. My hypothesis is based on the tremendous amount of energy required by genetic hackle males to grow the volume of feathers they grow (density, or number of feathers) at the rapid rate of growth they grow them. That alone is very taxing on a bird, even with ideal nutrition provided. Cold temperatures also tax all animals by requiring the animal (bird in this case) to burn calories just to maintain normal body temperature, calories over and above those normally required for regular body function and activity level. When combining these two stress factors - extreme feather growth and lower temperatures in the winter - I propose that one or the other (feather growth or maintenance of body weight/immune system performance) or both will suffer. I hope to disprove this as it will relieve me of facing the decision to either provide climate controlled housing or force my birds to suffer the consequences of overwhelming stress. However if my hypothesis is correct, it may lead to both increased feather growth and increased health in birds that are provided some support via even modest increases in temperatures for them during the coldest months. Even an increase to a consistent minimum of, for example 40-45 degrees vs the much colder night time temps many of us experience during the winter may prove enough to bring the combined stress threshold up to a level where neither feather production nor body weight/health are negatively affected.
I know it’s not possible for everyone to provide climate controlled housing, so even if my hypothesis is proven valid it still won’t change the way some of us will care for our birds. But if it can either provide assurance to all that it isn’t necessary or even beneficial or to the contrary that heat is beneficial (if not necessary) then we can each make our own decisions about if and how to adjust our setups.

 

[dheltzel]

Sounds cool! Do you keep them heated? I think I remember you mentioning you live in the Northeast.

I live outside Philly, winters are not that bad here (as a rule, we had one week over New Years . . . .)
I use heated water bowls primarily for my own convenience and to give them liquid water all day, but no other heat whatsoever. I lose some late hatching chicks sometimes that might have made it with heat, but it's too much risks/costs for me.
I do best with really hardy, tough old birds. I guess you could say I breed for that quality, inadvertently. The GH birds have been pretty good, certainly no worse than the other breeds. 2017 was a bad year for me raising chicks in general, so the fact that I more than quadrupled my number of GH breeders says they did ok.

 

[Bross63]

The GH birds have been pretty good, certainly no worse than the other breeds. 2017 was a bad year for me raising chicks in general, so the fact that I more than quadrupled my number of GH breeders says they did ok.

Yes, it sounds like they are thriving. Well done.

 

[dustponds10]

Just wanted to share a Genetic Hackle Bird with some history behind him. He is from Hugh Spencer’s line of hackle. You can look up tha history by searching Spencer hackle. This is my bird. They are great fun. I’ll try to post more pictures.

 

[dustponds10]

This bird comes from a line you must have if you want to be considered a breeder. Darbee/miner blood here. Great little bird. He also has an undisclosed line due to respecting other breeders.

 

[exoticpoultry]

Has anyone tried boggy bottom bantems, I know there line came directly from a flytier business.

 

[dustponds10]

I live outside Philly, winters are not that bad here (as a rule, we had one week over New Years . . . .)
I use heated water bowls primarily for my own convenience and to give them liquid water all day, but no other heat whatsoever. I lose some late hatching chicks sometimes that might have made it with heat, but it's too much risks/costs for me.
I do best with really hardy, tough old birds. I guess you could say I breed for that quality, inadvertently. The GH birds have been pretty good, certainly no worse than the other breeds. 2017 was a bad year for me raising chicks in general, so the fact that I more than quadrupled my number of GH breeders says they did ok.

Has anyone tried boggy bottom bantems, I know there line came directly from a flytier business.

Has anyone tried boggy bottom bantems, I know there line came directly from a flytier business.

Honestly if you are looking for genetic hackle eggs or chicks the only place selling quality eggs that have been bred for fly tying is Joel Alsdorf. Website is alsdorfgenetics.com his birds are amazing and come from one of the lines I acquired birds from. I also raise birds from his line to as well. Great birds. His price is reasonable also.

 

[dheltzel]

Honestly if you are looking for genetic hackle eggs or chicks the only place selling quality eggs that have been bred for fly tying is Joel Alsdorf. Website is alsdorfgenetics.com his birds are amazing and come from one of the lines I acquired birds from. I also raise birds from his line to as well. Great birds. His price is reasonable also.

Joel sold me my trio. Not cheap, but worth every penny in the enjoyment I get having them. I have chicks available, if anyone in driving range of Philly wants some. This line is extremely fertile, almost every egg hatches.

 

[EACWOODCRAFTS]

Hello everyone,

I have been looking through all the forums on Genetic Hackle birds for Fly Tying. A common theme I see is people wanting to buy eggs to raise their own birds for this purpose. I am one of those people.

There are many posts from several years ago where these eggs were being sold, but I see no recent ones. To help myself and those looking, I wanted to ask all the interested Back Yard Chicken Members if they know where or from whom these eggs could be obtained.

Thanks!

-Tucker

Hi, Alvin Theriualt in Staceville,Me was the last breeder of the true Metz and Hebert lines of genetic hackle that sold eggs until 2010 when i got my eggs from him.We tie flies daily from the flock in size 12 to 18.Beaverkill Outfitters out of Rome,NY ocassionaly sell eggs from this line also.

 

[NewBreeder]

I think you're thinking of either Ed Chiasson or me. Eds a nice guy and may sell you some eggs. His birds do have nice capes but im not sure of tying quality. If you just want length and no other qualities get a phoenix from a nice line. If you truly truly want to get into breeding hackle PM me and i will help you out. I dont want to see another person get fooled on hackles but i also dont like when people and serious about the time it takes to breed them. I dont mean that in a bad way just saying it takes patience that most people dont have.

Hi, your right it is me, I breed for wet fly and saltwater. I've been flyfishing and tying for over 50 years now and when I got my first egg layers I did what was natural started selecting for feather traits.

I first started with Barred Rock and Rhode Island Red and Ameraucana for their very soft feathers and ended up with Barred Ameraucana's. One of the traits that showed up is a very large and dense cape kinda of like a Lions Mane. I've keep breeding that trait turns out I think it is unique.

The challenge is the saddles. I've bred phoenix into the line to help break the gene for short saddles that is dominant in your barnyard chickens. I'm just starting to see the results after 5 yrs of sorting out that gene in my line.

What I've also done is bred some meat birds into one of my lines to increase their meat carrying carcass so I can make a multi-purpose bird overall. A tough goal since many of the meat and egg laying traits are dominant for short feathers and thick stems, it is always a balancing act and a long term goal.

This past winter I thought this new year 2018 was gong to be the year I was going to see the fruits of my labor materialize but a bobcat ripped open several of my pens and went on a killing spree and destroyed 1/2 my flock mainly all the new birds. Fortunately I had the previous breeders in pens he did not get into and maybe 2019 might be the year I see major progress in the saddle part of the breeding.

If your looking for birds to raise for Pike, as mentioned here Joel Alsdorf is the person to seek for what your looking for. He breeds a line of birds for Pike called the Predator Line bred just for Pike. Joel is a great guy to contact if you have not already done so. His line would save you some time on your needs.

Just a note for anyone who is interested in raising genetic hackle, this is not a venture for getting cheap hackles, it is about breeding and accomplishing goals that are long term.

I've bred many types of animals and I have a term I use all the time to separate who is serious and not. Are you a breeder or a raiser, most people raise animals, very few are breeders.

Best of luck with your goals.