Genetic Hackle Fowl Chat

[dheltzel]

Okay. I tend towards eggs just because it's usually safer because of mareks. But you do have a go point about breeding group size being easier with buying chicks

Chicks hatch Monday, get vaccinated early Tuesday and mailed by noon Tuesday. Most places get them Thursday late morning to early afternoon. I keep biosecurity in mind because even the chicks I am keeping need 3 weeks of isolation from adult birds before they are protected from Marek's.
What is unsafe is to buy older birds that have been outside, vaccinated or not. Any chicken can be infected with and transmit various strains of Marek's. Bringing in a vaccinated, but infected, birds is the worst scenario, as that bird will never show Marek's symptoms, even if you quarantine for a year, but they can pass it along to the rest of the flock, and they could get symptoms and die. Hence the common advice to not mix vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. The advice is sorta-kinda right, sometimes.

Do you vaccinate chicks you hatch?

 

[Dovemaiden]

For years, I avoided vaccinating for Marek's and still many breeders I know do not - in the hope of developing resistance. I'm not convinced I was making progress and customers were losing birds to it, and I knew how to prevent that, so now I vaccinate. It has cut mortality among my breeders. Perhaps I am allowing for weaker birds to prosper, but true genetic resistance to Marek's is a way off I believe.

That is such a hard choice, because of it being a leaky vaccine ( there are a plethora of good articles on that nowadays, but the companies making the pharmaceuticals still aren't addressing the problem in a meaningful way).
I buy mine vaccinated; however, there is a treatment ( two that I know of) for Marek's . The studies were listed listed in Pubmed and NIH articles.
one is acyclovir; the other ivermectin. Both kill Marek's.
I knew the ivermectin was a great parasite drug, but it was a surprise that it also addressed a number of viral etiologic agents. Both medications knock back the viral infection enough to give the body a chance to develop antibodies without being overwhelmed ( it takes 3 days to make the specific antibodies). That was truly surprising to me, especially the ivermectin. I knew it was used as an anti-cancer drug (because most cancers are viral in origin) , but I had no idea about its usefulness in Dengue, Yellow Fever, West Nile Virus ( that has helped me a bunch with raptor and corvidae rehabilitation) Zika, Newcastle, and others.
I dont have the conveyer belt for the misting for the vaccine, or a mist dispensor. So i havent used it on my birds, the vaccine has a super short shelf-life once opened. I have used the MG ( Mycoplasma gallisepticum) vaccine in the past, and it worked very well, I will be buying some next year again. I used to inoculate my Canaries yearly for canary pox until the vaccinebecame unavailable. I didn't try the coccidiosis vaccination because usually you can remedy the situation by having chicks on wire and not stressing them out; or using Sulmet. I have not been satisfied with Amprollium and no longer use that for coccidia.

 

[Dovemaiden]

I think I hit gold with these Alsdorf birds. My original male turned mean, but I think I caused that by treating him with too much deference. NONE of his descendants have show any tendencies to fight with me or each other. I try to raise the males together from a young age, so they don't get a rival dumped into the pen suddenly.
Not every male has perfect feathers, but none look like they have been picked at. I even have a male that is blind in one eye (infection that I did not treat in time) and he has great feathers.
Can you tell I love my GHF?

Yes, yes I can!

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

This one has some nice hackle feathers, its a Badger ( Birchen) and, do you see the white fluff at the top of the tail? That's where I picked out the longer saddle, to enable breeding. So he is not in " full bloom" since is missing a bit of the saddle hackle. A very nice tempered rooster, that one, and good with the hens and chicks. He is the only adult Silver Badger I have, but he does have some chicks coming up.

He looks more like silver duckwing than birchen (due to the wing triangle)

 

[Dovemaiden]

Chicks hatch Monday, get vaccinated early Tuesday and mailed by noon Tuesday. Most places get them Thursday late morning to early afternoon. I keep biosecurity in mind because even the chicks I am keeping need 3 weeks of isolation from adult birds before they are protected from Marek's.
What is unsafe is to buy older birds that have been outside, vaccinated or not. Any chicken can be infected with and transmit various strains of Marek's. Bringing in a vaccinated, but infected, birds is the worst scenario, as that bird will never show Marek's symptoms, even if you quarantine for a year, but they can pass it along to the rest of the flock, and they could get symptoms and die. Hence the common advice to not mix vaccinated and unvaccinated birds. The advice is sorta-kinda right, sometimes.

Do you vaccinate chicks you hatch?

I do for Mycoplasma, but not coccidiosis or Marek's. I am trying to contact some of the labs( where I personally know the researchers) to get a better feeling for what is going on with Marek's being a leaky vaccine. The couple of friends I have working in the pharmaceutical industry on the vaccines are quite helpful, and some raise birds themselves.
It is hard to get correct information so much of the time!
Companies don't like to admit product problems, or to spend money and time fixing them. I saw that with Lederle Labs out of Pearl River,( part of American Cyanimid \Pfizer) my aunt and uncle worked a whole career for them, ( and my Mom for a few years) and, well, everything isn't always " transparent" with the studies. They are not the alone in this. It's disturbing when you fine tooth comb some of the studies and stats.

 

[Dovemaiden]

He looks more like silver duckwing than birchen (due to the wing triangle)

Yes, you are right. The breeder I got him from was calling him a silver badger( birchen to me) but he certainly does look more Silver Duckwing. The breeder told me they would mix a lot of the stock to come up with new color variations because lately the variations have gained a great deal of popularity, so perhaps that is what is going on.

 

[Dovemaiden]

He looks more like silver duckwing than birchen (due to the wing triangle)

You have pigeons, too? Toys or working breeds?

 

[Dovemaiden]

I think I hit gold with these Alsdorf birds. My original male turned mean, but I think I caused that by treating him with too much deference. NONE of his descendants have show any tendencies to fight with me or each other. I try to raise the males together from a young age, so they don't get a rival dumped into the pen suddenly.
Not every male has perfect feathers, but none look like they have been picked at. I even have a male that is blind in one eye (infection that I did not treat in time) and he has great feathers.
Can you tell I love my GHF?

I think you have some great birds with that line, too. It was Providence with a capitol P, like a Dicken's novel, to be able to get some of those Alsdorf birds! Please, if you get a chance, share more photos! I love seeing them!

 

[Dovemaiden]

Yes, you are right. The breeder I got him from was calling him a silver badger( birchen to me) but he certainly does look more Silver Duckwing. The breeder told me they would mix a lot of the stock to come up with new color variations because lately the variations have gained a great deal of popularity, so perhaps that is what is going on.

I am still trying to find the chart that is supposed to be out there , somewhere, listing the regular names of poultry coloration, and then the fly tiers names for the birds. Rather difficult!

 

[SourRoses]

I had several people that expressed interest in chicks, then when I could see I was going to have a good hatch, I contacted them about payment and ---- nothing.
I had to keep that group and raise them because I can only ship them in a brief window. I stopped setting eggs then and THEN the people contact me later asking for chicks.

Oh darn! I had hoped those folks on the FB group who said they would contact you would follow through I was waaay too slow posting up feedback on my great chick box from you.

Funnily enough, the Hackles seem to do at least as well in the Florida heat as the Ameraucana. The Ams will be panting when the Hackles are just perching around sunning themselves. But then the Ams are very active in comparison, so I think it evens out.

I wondered if the super fine Hackle feathers let the heat escape... or perhaps the feather stiffness allows them to trap cool air underneath?
We did have trouble in the first heatwave this summer when the Hackles were still feathering in, about 4 weeks. It was just bad timing from the weather. It didn't drop below 97 almost all day, for a week straight, not cooling off at night, and after a few days of it the smaller Hackles got the runs and then pasty butt. Despite all efforts we lost one to that. But as soon as the nighttime temps came down everyone seemed happier and ever since they've done well in our normal Florida summer heat.

Speaking of the Ams, here's one of the Mottled I got from you, Dennis. His name is Popcorn, so far showing a really docile personality. I've been chatting about them a few places, so you may get more interest in them come spring?

In contrast the Black cockerel is the most bold and active chicken I've ever witnessed hands down. He's like a gymnast, constantly flying and bouncing off of stuff. I hope he doesn't turn mean, we really like him, and I plan to put him over my Isabel hens who don't display any feather shredding to get a nice source of Lavenders, hopefully.