Genetic Hackle Fowl Chat

[JacinLarkwell]

@dheltzel , I couldn't really tell, do you have multiple colors in the same pen or are they all separated?

 

[dheltzel]

@dheltzel , I couldn't really tell, do you have multiple colors in the same pen or are they all separated?

I only keep 1 pen and allow the 2 different "base colors" to interbreed. Some are wild-type (aka partridge or black breasted red) and some are extended black (EB). EB is dominant, so the color called grizzly in the trade (in the show world it would be called black barred or cuckoo) can carry the gene for wild-type.
I somewhat prefer the wild-type, called crele by poultry fanciers, but various other names in the feather trade. But I make an effort to keep both types in my pen. I have quite a few young ones of both types growing out. I had hoped to sell them, but the demand locally is pretty much zero.
There is a lot of color variations in these, which I think adds to their charm, everyone looks slightly different.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I only keep 1 pen and allow the 2 different "base colors" to interbreed. Some are wild-type (aka partridge or black breasted red) and some are extended black (EB). EB is dominant, so the color called grizzly in the trade (in the show world it would be called black barred or cuckoo) can carry the gene for wild-type.
I somewhat prefer the wild-type, called crele by poultry fanciers, but various other names in the feather trade. But I make an effort to keep both types in my pen. I have quite a few young ones of both types growing out. I had hoped to sell them, but the demand locally is pretty much zero.
There is a lot of color variations in these, which I think adds to their charm, everyone looks slightly different.

On the other thread, someone mentioned (I think, I'll have to go find it again in a bit) that they heard you ship birds. Is that true? I'm starting to compile my list for next spring's orders

 

[dheltzel]

On the other thread, someone mentioned (I think, I'll have to go find it again in a bit) that they heard you ship birds. Is that true? I'm starting to compile my list for next spring's orders

I ship chicks when the weather is cooperative. Usually starting in May. The hackle chicks are sexable at hatch, so I can ensure you get some of both sexes, and both colors, if you want.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I ship chicks when the weather is cooperative. Usually starting in May. The hackle chicks are sexable at hatch, so I can ensure you get some of both sexes, and both colors, if you want.

Awesome. I'll definitely contact you when I start placing orders. The email on your site is the right one, correct?

 

[dheltzel]

Awesome. I'll definitely contact you when I start placing orders. The email on your site is the right one, correct?

Yes, I also sent you a PM.

I prioritize shipping to breeders who want to keep rare breeds for the long term. I have other rare breeds as well, like welbars, opal legbars, lavender marans, cuckoo and mottled ameraucanas and spitzhauben.

 

[dheltzel]

On the other thread, someone mentioned (I think, I'll have to go find it again in a bit) that they heard you ship birds. Is that true? I'm starting to compile my list for next spring's orders

You could also look at Sand Hill Preservation Center. I sent them the Genetic Hackle, and quite a few other breeds. They maintain a number of breeds that are almost impossible to find anywhere else. Unlike commercial hatcheries where low demand means they stop maintaining the breed, Sand Hill doubles down on the less popular breeds and maintains larger flocks to ensure they do not disappear. Then when the poultry fashions circle back around, the breeds are still available. I like to support their work preserving rare breeds of poultry and heirloom vegetables.

 

[Dovemaiden]

Okay, that makes sense. I just wasn't sure if that would be something helpful since I also hobby raise pheonixes and my male grows his long feathers back every year instead of every 2 years.

I know people who have bred in the Phoenix and it has been beneficial to increase the density of feathering. I really like Phoenix, they are one of my favorite breeds. What Brian Reeder says in “ Form &Feathering of Domestic Fowl” is that for feather lengthening, the breeds to look to are Phoenix, Shokoku, Miniohiki, Sumatra, Yokohama & Onadagori. You are dealing with at least two genes, Gt( tail growth) & mt.
However, it’s not as straightforward as it seems, there are some other major genes and then modifiers involved.
Usually people just talk about those main two, Gt( tail growth, an autosomal dominant) and mt( non-molting gene that is an autosomal recessive). BOTH of these exhibit HEAVY modification & it gets conplicated pretty quickly with these.

 

[Dovemaiden]

I know people who have bred in the Phoenix and it has been beneficial to increase the density of feathering. I really like Phoenix, they are one of my favorite breeds. What Brian Reeder says in “ Form &Feathering of Domestic Fowl” is that for feather lengthening, the breeds to look to are Phoenix, Shokoku, Miniohiki, Sumatra, Yokohama & Onadagori. You are dealing with at least two genes, Gt( tail growth) & mt.
However, it’s not as straightforward as it seems, there are some other major genes and then modifiers involved.
Usually people just talk about those main two, Gt( tail growth, an autosomal dominant) and mt( non-molting gene that is an autosomal recessive). BOTH of these exhibit HEAVY modification & it gets conplicated pretty quickly with these.

To briefly recap what areas Gt effects, it is mainly the 1. Main tail retrices( those are your true, long main tail feathers) and then the greater and lesser secondaries of the tail, the sickles. It varies in effect whether it is homozygous or heteroxygous. With your homozygous birds, Gt can cause up to three feet a year in growth; heterozygous will show 18inches to 24 inches( still impressive).
But sometimes the tail retrices grow longer, sometimes the secondaries— sometimes both— and that is telling you there are modifiers at work, and that hasn’t all been sorted out yet, genetically on these chickens, though we get closer all the time.

 

[Dovemaiden]

To briefly recap what areas Gt effects, it is mainly the 1. Main tail retrices( those are your true, long main tail feathers) and then the greater and lesser secondaries of the tail, the sickles. It varies in effect whether it is homozygous or heteroxygous. With your homozygous birds, Gt can cause up to three feet a year in growth; heterozygous will show 18inches to 24 inches( still impressive).
But sometimes the tail retrices grow longer, sometimes the secondaries— sometimes both— and that is telling you there are modifiers at work, and that hasn’t all been sorted out yet, generically , on these chickens.

Gt also affects the hackle, breast feathering snd length of the main wing feathers— but does not DIRECTLY effect the saddle!, which Reeder says appears to be controlled by a separate factor he named Gt^ Sd that appears to operate as an autosomal dominant.
When looking at saddle lengthening, Gt^Sd operating exactly the same way as the Gt gene, (with the homozygous showing more lengthening than the heterozygous.) To give an idea: normal saddle feathers are about 4 inches long. If you have the homozygous saddle gene, by itself, without the non-molting factor— you can expect up to 12 inches of saddle hackle to be expressed; with the heterozygous and again, non molting factors NOT present, you are looking at 6inches, approximately in length. And that’s valuable to know about these saddle feathers, how long they can be before you even start looking at adding the non molting gene. What is more important, is that this tells you Gt^Sd can be expressed EVEN IN THE ABSENCE of the Gt gene. That is what the Genetic Hackle Fowl breeders are more focused on — the Gt^Sd saddle hackle lengthening gene, not so much the tail. You have seen, I’m sure, photos of them holding birds with tremendously long saddle hackles, but a rather small tail. Dr. Tom Whiting is focusing on extreme length on the saddle hackle AND the neck hackle, for example.