Genetics Calculator Chat Thread

[Amer]

I don't have a bias, I'm just going by the Standard of Perfection. I was only trying to make it known that a person will never win Champion of Show in a full blown APA sanctioned show using Cackle Hatchery birds. I mean, it only makes sense.

That's the whole reason why I don't buy anything from hatcheries. I'm looking to climb the standings in the APA point system to become a master exhibitor. I'm not looking to win best of breed just cause I had one poorly bird in a breed no one else had at the show.

Well yes, true. You never would win a show with them. I don't use them as my show birds of course. But I was pointing out they probably fit the basic "shape," but yes, they wouldn't win.

 

[BlackHackle]

Well yes, true. You never would win a show with them. I don't use them as my show birds of course. But I was pointing out they probably fit the basic "shape," but yes, they wouldn't win.

I knew you knew the Standard too well to think that

Was just clarifying for all those who view this thread in the future

 

[Amer]

I know what you're saying, when you use the term. But as an aside, that term "dual purpose" always stands out to me.

The thing that I see exhibition breeders do, is they select so hard for "visual" traits that the SOP defines, that within a few generations they get away from the original breed's purpose, or purposes. I wonder how many breeds are really still dual purpose?

A prime example of this is in the cattle world with the shorthorn breed. In the last 25-30 years, that breed has been completely ruined in the US as far as production merit goes. The only really good stock of shorthorns that I'm aware of are in Canada. In the US they're all "club" cattle, which are so heavily focused on shows that they might as well not even be the same breed any longer.

I think a lot of this happens in the chicken world as well with both exhibition breeders and hatchery breeders.

Yes. I love my Buckeyes. Aaron Baker uses his birds for the table and stuff and they are among the best in the country. Gotta give the guy kudos.

Can i guess that you breed exhibition stock then? And that you just don't support any hatcheries, because their selection practices do not align with your own?

If that's the case I see no issue with that at all.

Likewise, can you see how someone like myself who has no interest in exhibition stock can be quite happy with the birds that Cackle or some other hatchery supplies?And understand that this is because they are representative of the breed, even if they deviate from SOP?

Can you accept that what you view as inferior, is not inferior to me? And that it is only inferior when judged against the SOP, but works quite well when judged simply as a chicken? I mostly rate them on their pooping prowess... and I assure you they excel at that!

But your position also seems to be that hatcheries should cull harder, etc. So as to produce show quality birds. I'm not sure I can agree with this, or even agree to disagree on this, as it doesn't seem to reason out.

• Wouldn't the hatchery need to cull extremely hard to keep the conformity of the flock close to the SOP?
• And wouldn't we expect a lot of the genetic variance to disappear, and then over time the strains would be less healthy?
  
• And for laced wyandottes, etc. wouldn't the hatchery also need to keep a male strain and female strain, to get show quality of each gender?

Now if a hatchery culled that hard, and kept separate male and female lines for a lot of the breeds, and started to have a lot health issues due to tightly bred lines, wouldn't we expect the overhead to be really high and profit really low?

And so then we have to ask: why are they in business?

So I think we can start to see some problems with this idea that hatcheries should follow the same practices as the exhibition breeders.

As for the fella judging the show, from what I understand, there are judges in all livestock show worlds that people are unhappy with. The thing I hear more often than not, is that the judge isn't familiar enough with the standard for that particular breed, and judges breed A as if it were breed B...

But if this guy is a lousy judge he's a lousy judge ... regardless of his affiliation with a hatchery, or his lack of familiarity with breed A... or a list of other reasons... and I would guess there is governing body in place to deal with that?

So if we step back and look at it objectively, can we say that generally speaking exhibition breeders tend to demonstrate a bias against hatcheries?

I breed exhibition stock and agree with you.


I like the hatchery, I just wouldn't buy fancy stock from it and expect number one bird at the show. No matter whether I buy from a hatchery or a private breeder. You will have to breed better stock out of them because they are not selling their best.





Just so you know I'm not saying you should buy it if you want show quality stock of course. Here is what they say on breeding






https://www.cacklehatchery.com/breeding-farms/

 

[Amer]

I knew you knew the Standard too well to think that

Was just clarifying for all those who view this thread in the future

K good.

 

[9SpiceyChickens]

Does anyone have any tips for taking care of Exhibition chickens?

 

[Amer]

Does anyone have any tips for taking care of Exhibition chickens?

Yes.


1. Do not get birds from a hatchery or a breeder who keeps more than five breeds, they can't focus on one breed and refine it and breed numbers. If they care a lot about a breed they will focus their time on it, not split it.



2. Focus on one or two breeds. Projects are fine, but when someone hears your name and you become great they will think of the breed you focused on refer to rule one.

3. All decisions should be made by the Standard. Nothing else, Period. That's the short answer to your whole question.

4. If you've heard this before I want to congratulate my fellow breeders for spreading it around. Read the first thirty six or so pages. They are helpful to anyone breeding chickens be they a Delaware, Leghorn, or Hyline Brown.

5. Go to shows. A lot of people with decades of experience will be there, eager to teach you as long as you are eager to learn. The people who know what they're doing will show it at a show in their birds, not a post on the internet.

I know there are more steps, but just keep reading the Standard and find the breed that you like the most.

If you've read these things before, it was not me, but I thought it was good common knowledge to spread along.

 

[9SpiceyChickens]

Thank you! I am already doing the first 2. I got my chicken from a well known breeder in my area, who works with Americaunas and Wyandottes. Iḿ doing 4h with my chicken, do they have a different standard?

 

[Amer]

Thank you! I am already doing the first 2. I got my chicken from a well known breeder in my area, who works with Americaunas and Wyandottes. Iḿ doing 4h with my chicken, do they have a different standard?

Nope!
Use the Standard of Perfection. What variety of Ameraucanas and Wyandottes? Who is the breeder? (Unless you think it will give away your location.)

 

[Cyprus]

Okay so this project is lagging.
What genetics still need to be unraveled to keep this moving forward?
We have comb type
Egg color
Leg color
Skin color

What pattern/color crosses can we reliably calculate?

 

[BlackHackle]

Okay so this project is lagging.
What genetics still need to be unraveled to keep this moving forward?
We have comb type
Egg color
Leg color
Skin color

What pattern/color crosses can we reliably calculate?

I'm gonna get back to it, my elder brother came up for a visit so