Genetics question regarding mutt birds 😁

[renk777]

I have a blue gold partridge brahma hen and a Silver Braekel x Red Sexlink hen that laid eggs under a broody. Brahma is typical blue gold partridge coloration.. Braekel/sexlink hen is pretty....slate legs but white base with some sort of red barred/partridge type coloring. The roo that should have sired chicks is a blue Ameraucana x ?/Silkie cross. He has the black skin and is a blue base with gold coloration. All I know is that his dad was blue and that mom was a 'little red silkie cross'. That's it. There is a bantam mutt roo in our flock that is a mottled red bird. So far, 2 out of 6 eggs have hatched. One died with no apparent reason as to why. The other is doing fine. Both chicks are white/yellow with red down. I'll try to get pics at some point to include with this post but don't want to disturb mama. I guess my main question is....is it possible that a blue mutt rooster whose mom was red can produce completely light chicks? The chick that died had light legs and was out of the Braekel/Sexlink's egg. So I would think she could have been recessive for light down / legs from her mom and that roo could be recessive for the same from his mom. But with 2 light chicks out of 6 eggs, starting to think the sneaky little bantam slipped his genetics into the pool. Broody started sitting on eggs while we were away on vaca and the 2 hens continued to lay eggs in that box. When I discovered it, I pulled the newest eggs but left 6 that were clearly developing. But the distance in time between the first and last egg beginning development could span a week...I have no clue. So while I wait to see if any dark chicks hatch, figured I'd post this impossibly long question and entertain myself with all of your wisdom while I wait Edited to add pics. First pic is
Silver Braekel x Red sexlink hen. 2nd pic is Brahma hen when she was younger. 3rd pic is Blue Ameraucana x ?/Silkie roo with fibro gene. Last pic is sneaky little bantam when he was younger....mottling was more apparent.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

My understanding with the conglomeration you have is that the blue rooster would basically produce 50% blue and 50% black chicks with secondary color bleed through possible from the mother (red or partridge gold).

Since you had light chicks with the red down, I bet that little mottled red bantam was the father at least for those 2 chicks. (Those bantams can surprise you

My guess.

@NatJ what do you think?

LofMc

 

[renk777]

My understanding with the conglomeration you have is that the blue rooster would basically produce 50% blue and 50% black chicks with secondary color bleed through possible from the mother (red or partridge gold).

Since you had light chicks with the red down, I bet that little mottled red bantam was the father at least for those 2 chicks. (Those bantams can surprise you

My guess.

@NatJ what do you think?

LofMc

I thought blue x blue can also produce splash? Would that pertain in the case of the blue/gold partridge brahma he's chicks? Though in this case, even the splash will probably have weird leakage. It is a messy conglomeration for sure haha I suppose in a few days, I'll know if large roo sired any. That's what I am hoping as I don't need any more smallish birds this year! I need more land!

 

[NatJ]

Edited to add pics.

Yes, those help a lot!

is it possible that a blue mutt rooster whose mom was red can produce completely light chicks?

Yes, if their mother is the Braekel/Sexlink hen.

I can see in the photo that she has the Dominant White gene, which turns all black to white.
It doesn't matter if that "black" is diluted to blue or splash, it still turns white.

So if the Braekel/Sexlink is the mother, you may get light chicks from either rooster, although I expect they will show some red or gold in their feathers as they grow (like their mother has.)

That hen probably only has one copy of the Dominant White gene, so she might also produce some chicks that show black, blue, or splash (along with various amounts of red or gold.)


Looking at comb types:
--Braekel/sexlink hen has single comb
--Brahma comb isn't obvious, but should be pea
--one rooster has rose comb
--one rooster has single comb

So:
Any chicks with a rose comb must have the father with a rose comb.
Any chicks with a pea comb must have the mother with a pea comb.
If you get any chicks with a walnut comb, they must be rose x pea.

Chicks with a single comb could come from either rooster, because your rose comb rooster might also carry the gene for not-rose comb.
But single comb x single comb can NOT produce a chick with any other comb type.

If your Brahma is pure for pea comb (like Brahmas are supposed to be), then all of her chicks will have either pea comb or walnut comb. Either type should be obviously different from a single comb. Walnut comb is typically wider than pea comb, and often smoother as well.

Some comb types look alike when the chicks are little, and some do not.
I find that rose or walnut combs look much wider than single combs, even at hatch Pea combs have an in-between width, which means I can mistake them for any of the other types when the chicks are young

 

[NatJ]

@NatJ what do you think?

I think the photos must have been added after you answered. I saw things in them that I did not realize from the text description.

I thought blue x blue can also produce splash? Would that pertain in the case of the blue/gold partridge brahma he's chicks?

Yes.

 

[renk777]

Yes, those help a lot!



Yes, if their mother is the Braekel/Sexlink hen.

I can see in the photo that she has the Dominant White gene, which turns all black to white.
It doesn't matter if that "black" is diluted to blue or splash, it still turns white.

So if the Braekel/Sexlink is the mother, you may get light chicks from either rooster, although I expect they will show some red or gold in their feathers as they grow (like their mother has.)

That hen probably only has one copy of the Dominant White gene, so she might also produce some chicks that show black, blue, or splash (along with various amounts of red or gold.)


Looking at comb types:
--Braekel/sexlink hen has single comb
--Brahma comb isn't obvious, but should be pea
--one rooster has rose comb
--one rooster has single comb

So:
Any chicks with a rose comb must have the father with a rose comb.
Any chicks with a pea comb must have the mother with a pea comb.
If you get any chicks with a walnut comb, they must be rose x pea.

Chicks with a single comb could come from either rooster, because your rose comb rooster might also carry the gene for not-rose comb.
But single comb x single comb can NOT produce a chick with any other comb type.

If your Brahma is pure for pea comb (like Brahmas are supposed to be), then all of her chicks will have either pea comb or walnut comb. Either type should be obviously different from a single comb. Walnut comb is typically wider than pea comb, and often smoother as well.

Some comb types look alike when the chicks are little, and some do not.
I find that rose or walnut combs look much wider than single combs, even at hatch Pea combs have an in-between width, which means I can mistake them for any of the other types when the chicks are young

I know nothing about chicken genetics so never even considered dominant white! That helps a lot and gives me hope the dark roo might still be the dad! As for the combs, pretty resigned to the fact that it'll be their combs that help me figure out who the moms were if I don't see which egg each hatched out of and if they're all light. Though I thought dark roo's comb is walnut? Regardless, everything you mention would still apply. It is a muttly mess

 

[renk777]

I think the photos must have been added after you answered. I saw things in them that I did not realize from the text description.


Yes.

Yup....added them this morning

 

[renk777]

Here's the chick out of the Brahma hen...looks suspiciously like the sneaky bantam did as a chick!

 

[NatJ]

As for the combs, pretty resigned to the fact that it'll be their combs that help me figure out who the moms were if I don't see which egg each hatched out of and if they're all light. Though I thought dark roo's comb is walnut?

It might be. The photo wasn't at the best angle to tell.

Regardless, everything you mention would still apply. It is a muttly mess

Yes, it is quite a puzzle!

Here's the chick out of the Brahma hen...looks suspiciously like the sneaky bantam did as a chick!

That one may become more obvious as it grows up, or it may not.

Does the sneaky bantam have feathered or clean feet? I think I see some feathers on the feet of the Ameraucana/Silkie mix rooster. The chick's feet look pretty heavily feathered, so I'm wondering if we can make a guess at the father from that.

The white mottling of the sneaky bantam is caused by a recessive gene, so it should only show up if a chick inherits it from both parents (not likely, with those mothers.) But on occasion, a chick will get white tips on a few feathers if it inherited mottling from just one parent, so that's one thing to possibly watch for.

I notice the sneaky bantam has some black in his tail but not elsewhere, while the Ameraucana/Silkie rooster has black in more places. When the chick grows feathers, the distribution of black (or blue or splash) might help tell which rooster is the father (or it could be confusingly in the middle.)

I keep thinking of things that "might" help sort it out, but so far not anything that definitely does. So I'll certainly be interested in updates as the chicks grow

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes. Blue on blue produces splash.

And no. I hadn't seen photos which does explain more.