Getting a guardian puppy - any chicken<-->dog communicables I need to worry about?

[cluckmecoop7]

Post pics!

 

[chickfused]

Here's from the week she came home:

Here's from a couple of weeks ago:

Here's from a couple of days ago:

I can't remember if I said it or not, but her full official name is 4Round's Copper Corazón of Chicken Hill.

 

[Aunt Angus]

Here's from the week she came home:

View attachment 3271946

Here's from a couple of weeks ago:

View attachment 3271943


Here's from a couple of days ago:

View attachment 3271945

I can't remember if I said it or not, but her full official name is 4Round's Copper Corazón of Chicken Hill.

Good to know I'm not the only one that gives animals long names (unless that's her AKC name)!

I had a cat named Gaius Octavius Augustus Julius Caesar and another named Odin the Norse God of War and Death.

No pedigree. Just long, goofy names.

 

[chickfused]

It's her registered name, yes. (English Shepherds actually aren't in the AKC though. Who knew? But there's a very active club for them which replicates.)

If it makes you feel any better, we have a rando orange manx kitty named Ginger Marmalade Aristotle of Chicken Hill.

 

[chickfused]

I was too exhausted to write earlier, but Copper tried to aggressively attack mom today. I'm not sure if it was a fear reaction or resource guarding. Mom had gone to harvest some kudzu to make a basket. Copper lost her mind, barking, growling, and teeth bared intimidating when Mom came back with an armload of it. I grabbed her collar before she hurt Mom.

I have noticed in the past that Copper does not like people who are not people shaped. When the lawn guy is here, she is afraid of him until he takes off all his protective gear, then they're best buds. As soon as Mom put down the kudzu and talked to her, she was scared of it, but ok with Mom again after the adrenaline wore off in a few seconds. We reassured her it was not a dog eating kudzu demon, and then played with her using the kudzu. By the end of the session she was happily demolishing the discarded leaves and vines.

I need to avoid that first reaction though. When she's big, she will be very, very dangerous instead of just somewhat dangerous.

I just feel like this is all too much. Does everyone go through this or do I have a difficult dog?

 

[Aunt Angus]

I was too exhausted to write earlier, but Copper tried to aggressively attack mom today. I'm not sure if it was a fear reaction or resource guarding. Mom had gone to harvest some kudzu to make a basket. Copper lost her mind, barking, growling, and teeth bared intimidating when Mom came back with an armload of it. I grabbed her collar before she hurt Mom.

I have noticed in the past that Copper does not like people who are not people shaped. When the lawn guy is here, she is afraid of him until he takes off all his protective gear, then they're best buds. As soon as Mom put down the kudzu and talked to her, she was scared of it, but ok with Mom again after the adrenaline wore off in a few seconds. We reassured her it was not a dog eating kudzu demon, and then played with her using the kudzu. By the end of the session she was happily demolishing the discarded leaves and vines.

I need to avoid that first reaction though. When she's big, she will be very, very dangerous instead of just somewhat dangerous.

I just feel like this is all too much. Does everyone go through this or do I have a difficult dog?

Wish I had an answer.

 

[Geena]

I was too exhausted to write earlier, but Copper tried to aggressively attack mom today. I'm not sure if it was a fear reaction or resource guarding. Mom had gone to harvest some kudzu to make a basket. Copper lost her mind, barking, growling, and teeth bared intimidating when Mom came back with an armload of it. I grabbed her collar before she hurt Mom.

I have noticed in the past that Copper does not like people who are not people shaped. When the lawn guy is here, she is afraid of him until he takes off all his protective gear, then they're best buds. As soon as Mom put down the kudzu and talked to her, she was scared of it, but ok with Mom again after the adrenaline wore off in a few seconds. We reassured her it was not a dog eating kudzu demon, and then played with her using the kudzu. By the end of the session she was happily demolishing the discarded leaves and vines.

I need to avoid that first reaction though. When she's big, she will be very, very dangerous instead of just somewhat dangerous.

I just feel like this is all too much. Does everyone go through this or do I have a difficult dog?

That's a fairly typical protection breed puppy reaction. They are bred to notice and respond to unusual things. To her, it looked scary and possibly dangerous, maybe the kudzu was attacking your mom, and yet she faced it head on instead of running away.

As she grows and observes she'll learn to sort out the everyday happenings from the potential dangers, but right now it's all new to her. You handled if perfectly, letting her examine the kudzu to see that it wasn't anything to worry about.

This is actually the type of dog *I* like to work with, she sounds like she's full of piss and vinegar, lol. But I'm beginning to think that for you and your situation, she's just way too much dog. She's just a little pup now and although you're trying your heart out, you're still struggling to deal with her at times. And you're right, most likely it's going to get even harder over this first year before it gets better. That's just the nature of the beast.

Sorry to say, but IMO you'd probably be better off returning her to the breeder or rehoming her, and if you still want a dog, getting a much more low key type of puppy.

 

[MrFluffyandGirls]

I was too exhausted to write earlier, but Copper tried to aggressively attack mom today. I'm not sure if it was a fear reaction or resource guarding. Mom had gone to harvest some kudzu to make a basket. Copper lost her mind, barking, growling, and teeth bared intimidating when Mom came back with an armload of it. I grabbed her collar before she hurt Mom.

I have noticed in the past that Copper does not like people who are not people shaped. When the lawn guy is here, she is afraid of him until he takes off all his protective gear, then they're best buds. As soon as Mom put down the kudzu and talked to her, she was scared of it, but ok with Mom again after the adrenaline wore off in a few seconds. We reassured her it was not a dog eating kudzu demon, and then played with her using the kudzu. By the end of the session she was happily demolishing the discarded leaves and vines.

I need to avoid that first reaction though. When she's big, she will be very, very dangerous instead of just somewhat dangerous.

I just feel like this is all too much. Does everyone go through this or do I have a difficult dog?

That's what protective dogs do when they see something that does not look right in their eyes. She made a judgement call and decided your mom looked like a threat with all that kudzu. When your mom spoke up and let he know it was her how did your pup react? My spouse wears black coveralls and a baseball cap all the time and every now and then when he wears regular pants and has his hair combed our guardian dog will raise cane until he lets her know it's him.

 

[chickfused]

That's a fairly typical protection breed puppy reaction. They are bred to notice and respond to unusual things. To her, it looked scary and possibly dangerous, maybe the kudzu was attacking your mom, and yet she faced it head on instead of running away.

But I'm beginning to think that for you and your situation, she's just way too much dog. She's just a little pup now and although you're trying your heart out, you're still struggling to deal with her at times. And you're right, most likely it's going to get even harder over this first year before it gets better. That's just the nature of the beast.

Sorry to say, but IMO you'd probably be better off returning her to the breeder or rehoming her, and if you still want a dog, getting a much more low key type of puppy.

To be clear, we were happy she knew, and did, her job. It was still upsetting, and I worry about my Mom. She couldn't fend off a pissed off 50 lb dog in any way.

I'm not ready to give up yet, even though she ripped a hole in my dress this morning because she wanted attention and to play tug of war. The advice I've read says "ignore them if they jump and bite and they will learn it's not right thing to do to get attention." Hard to do when she's literally stripping me naked and destroying my clothing right outside in front of God and everybody. I put her in timeout immediately after, and she calmed down.

But, as I said, way upthread, we're learning together she and I. I think my instincts are good, and her instincts are good, and we'll eventually get sorted out. She's not a bad dog at all, she's just, as you've noted, a hard dog (for me).

I've never approached life on easy mode, but I am going to take her and I to a puppy class. I may be causing some of this issue and if a trainer observes me and her together, they might be able to teach me some better habits or interaction techniques. After the incident yesterday, I promised I'd give us both one year to sort ourselves out, barring injurious aggression I can't control.

@MrFluffyandGirls - When mom tried to tell her it was ok while holding the kudzu, she was having none of it. When Mom put the kudzu down, everything changed nearly in an instant. She was scared of it, but knew mom was mom.

@Geena, you'll be happy to know that the live-in chicken experiment is likely close to over. She's 100% reliable about them when she's calm, but due to her puppy nature and energy, I think that will change, and then return as she ages. She will still have lots of chicken exposure, just not unsupervised. We tried, and I think it may have helped a _ton_, making a long process shorter. She will still sleep with them to protect from nighttime predators.

 

[MrFluffyandGirls]

I'm not ready to give up yet, even though she ripped a hole in my dress this morning because she wanted attention and to play tug of war. The advice I've read says "ignore them if they jump and bite and they will learn it's not right thing to do to get attention." Hard to do when she's literally stripping me naked and destroying my clothing. I put her in timeout immediately after, and she calmed down.

But, as I said, way upthread, we're learning together she and I. I think my instincts are good, and her instincts are good, and we'll eventually get sorted out. She's not a bad dog at all, she's just, as you've noted, a hard dog (for me).

I've never approached life on easy mode, but I am going to take her and I to a puppy class. I may be causing some of this issue and if a trainer observes me and her together, they might be able to teach me some better habits or interaction techniques. After the incident yesterday, I promised I'd give us both one year to sort ourselves out, barring injurious aggression I can't control.

@MrFluffyandGirls - When mom tried to tell her it was ok while holding the kudzu, she was having none of it. When Mom put the kudzu down, everything changed nearly in an instant. She was scared of it, but knew mom was mom.

As long as she chilled out when she knew who she was dealing with then that's normal behavior.
I read through this thread and I was wondering whose bright idea it was to keep an untrained puppy alone with chickens? You could wake up to find dead chickens everywhere if the puppy decided it was go time. Until a puppy has been completely socialized (that means with your people and animals) and under control I would defiantly not leave it with chickens. Some people think a guardian pup can just be tossed in with livestock and instincts will kick in but that's not the case. It's good your going to go to training classes and you might want to crate train your pup while indoors to prevent it from pooping and peeing where and when it should not go. Plus the crate will help you set boundaries with the puppy. Good luck and in the end after you put all your love and hard work into the puppy it will have been worth it.