getting to a delaware

[tadkerson]

Please do tell...

F1xF1 or F1xNH hens?

The barred rock would carry the silver.

If you do an F1 X F1 You will get 1/2 of the males that are homozygous for silver ( purebred for silver) this eliminates crossing in the future to obtain homozygous silver males. Half of the females from the cross will be silver. Put this decreases your chances if getting a homozygous wheaten but allows you to get males with two barring genes.

If you do an F1 x NH hen the BC1F1 will not contain males that are homozygous for silver they will be gold or heterozygous silver. 1/2 the females will be gold and 1/2 silver. This increases your chances of getting a homozygous wheaten. Barred males will only carry one barring gene.

Not worried about columbian.

You can go either way. If the barred male parent was a superior bird then do the F1 x F1 to gain better conformation.

If the NH Hen is superior, then do the F1 x NH hen to gain better conformation.

Either way will work.

Just choose one and go for it. What a person does next depends upon what segregates and the number of birds that are hatched.

Tim

 

[nicalandia]

The barred rock would carry the silver.

If you do an F1 X F1 You will get 1/2 of the males that are homozygous for silver ( purebred for silver) this eliminates crossing in the future to obtain homozygous silver males. Half of the females from the cross will be silver. Put this decreases your chances if getting a homozygous wheaten but allows you to get males with two barring genes.

If you do an F1 x NH hen the BC1F1 will not contain males that are homozygous for silver they will be gold or heterozygous silver. 1/2 the females will be gold and 1/2 silver. This increases your chances of getting a homozygous wheaten. Barred males will only carry one barring gene.

Not worried about columbian.

You can go either way. If the barred male parent was a superior bird then do the F1 x F1 to gain better conformation.

If the NH Hen is superior, then do the F1 x NH hen to gain better conformation.

Either way will work.

Just choose one and go for it. What a person does next depends upon what segregates and the number of birds that are hatched.

Tim

doing a F1xF1 and expecting a Silver wheaten rooster is just too unrealistic for me, a Columbian Barred golde rooster is more plausible for a backyard breeder, the amount chicks to hatch to the first one(Silver Barred wheaten) its just to ridiculous

 

[catdaddyfro]

The barred rock would carry the silver.

If you do an F1 X F1 You will get 1/2 of the males that are homozygous for silver ( purebred for silver) this eliminates crossing in the future to obtain homozygous silver males. Half of the females from the cross will be silver. Put this decreases your chances if getting a homozygous wheaten but allows you to get males with two barring genes.

If you do an F1 x NH hen the BC1F1 will not contain males that are homozygous for silver they will be gold or heterozygous silver. 1/2 the females will be gold and 1/2 silver. This increases your chances of getting a homozygous wheaten. Barred males will only carry one barring gene.

Not worried about columbian.

You can go either way. If the barred male parent was a superior bird then do the F1 x F1 to gain better conformation.

If the NH Hen is superior, then do the F1 x NH hen to gain better conformation.

Either way will work.

Just choose one and go for it. What a person does next depends upon what segregates and the number of birds that are hatched.

Tim

What or how much of a concern does brassiness come into effect here with the F1 to NH cross, more so than the F1 to F1 which so far I've not noticed brassiness to be much of a problem for Kathy.

Jeff

 

[nicalandia]

What or how much of a concern does brassiness come into effect here with the F1 to NH cross, more so than the F1 to F1 which so far I've not noticed brassiness to be much of a problem for Kathy.

Jeff

Brassines? as in red/gold color leaking thru the barred silver columbian hens?

 

[tadkerson]

What or how much of a concern does brassiness come into effect here with the F1 to NH cross, more so than the F1 to F1 which so far I've not noticed brassiness to be much of a problem for Kathy.

Jeff

I would would think the possibilities are much lower for autosomal red showing in new hampshires. I used RIR and the silver offspring have a high probability of expressing autosomal red. Kathy did not mention anything to me (that I can remember about red in silver females) so it may not be a problem at all if a person uses a new hampshire. PM Kathy and see if she had problems with buff on the backs of her silver females.

Tim

 

[catdaddyfro]

I would would think the possibilities are much lower for autosomal red showing in new hampshires. I used RIR and the silver offspring have a high probability of expressing autosomal red. Kathy did not mention anything to me (that I can remember about red in silver females) so it may not be a problem at all if a person uses a new hampshire. PM Kathy and see if she had problems with buff on the backs of her silver females.

Tim

I assumed that you knew I'd be concerned with the brassiness showing in the males Tim this has been the problem in the past with the delwares already in existence from people out-crossing them back to Reds and columbian to make plenty to go around(hatcheries

of course are the most to blame)

I know what all Kathy has and done she hasn't done the F1 to NH cross she did only F1 to F1 and no she didn't/doesn't have a problem with autosomal red in the silver females, I know she had a few of the F2 males that had red leakage which is expected but she culled for that too for the next move/ phase F2 to F2.

So my question is(to Tim) the breeding of F1 to NH hens would it be more likely to have to cull more males because of the red/brassiness being more apt to show up in the males.

Marvin(niclandia) is the one that threw in the silver columbian female part, I didn't say a thing in the world about them in my question, he is a confusing know it all sometimes,

here was my original question,

What or how much of a concern does brassiness come into effect here with the F1 to NH cross, more so than the F1 to F1 which so far I've not noticed brassiness to be much of a problem for Kathy.

Good day

Jeff

 

[nicalandia]

So my question is(to Tim) the breeding of F1 to NH hens would it be more likely to have to cull more males because of the red/brassiness being more apt to show up in the males.


Jeff

F1xNH will yield 50% Gold males(Culls) and 50% Golden(S/s+) Males, by that nature they will show more brassines than pure silver(S/S) males, BUT this is expected on BC1s males, just select the best(with the least of brassines) golden males and cross it back to Barred Silver Columbian BC1 hens, this cross will produce Silver males and golden males, cull the goldens and gold hens, keep the silver hens...

dont worry too much on Brassines, this can be culled for(if its pressent at all) and as Tim said, NH are not known to show too much brassines on their progeny..

 

[tadkerson]

doing a F1xF1 and expecting a Silver wheaten rooster is just too unrealistic for me, a Columbian Barred golde rooster is more plausible for a backyard breeder, the amount chicks to hatch to the first one(Silver Barred wheaten) its just to ridiculous

I hatched 60 some odd to get what I wanted. If you are going to do out crossing, you had better get ready to hatch a bunch of the chicks. It goes with the territory.

Tim

 

[tadkerson]

I assumed that you knew I'd be concerned with the brassiness showing in the males Tim this has been the problem in the past with the delwares already in existence from people out-crossing them back to Reds and columbian to make plenty to go around(hatcheries

of course are the most to blame)

I know what all Kathy has and done she hasn't done the F1 to NH cross she did only F1 to F1 and no she didn't/doesn't have a problem with autosomal red in the silver females, I know she had a few of the F2 males that had red leakage which is expected but she culled for that too for the next move/ phase F2 to F2.

So my question is(to Tim) the breeding of F1 to NH hens would it be more likely to have to cull more males because of the red/brassiness being more apt to show up in the males.

Marvin(niclandia) is the one that threw in the silver columbian female part, I didn't say a thing in the world about them in my question, he is a confusing know it all sometimes,

here was my original question,

What or how much of a concern does brassiness come into effect here with the F1 to NH cross, more so than the F1 to F1 which so far I've not noticed brassiness to be much of a problem for Kathy.

Good day

Jeff

An F1 to NH would could only produce heterozygous silver males that carried the gold allele also. Having a bird that is heterozygous is asking for buff/straw to show in the male birds. I would still do the cross if I was concerned about establishing homozygous wheaten in the offspring. Then the next round I would cross het silver male over a silver female to get purebred silver males.

The birds can be obtained either way. No matter which way you cross one has its advantages over the other. The breeder just has to choose which way they want to approach the problem associated with the different crosses.

Jeff and Marvin you too need to shack hands and go on. There are different ways of accomplishing the same end product- a nice looking bird. Both of you can be correct. Both of you know a lot about chicken breeding and the genetics behind breeding.

Ever body looks at such a project with a different point of view. You have to try and see the other persons point of view. I am not taking sides- each of you have made good points in the debate.

Just think of duck boy- he just wants to have fun and get some satisfaction from doing experimental crosses. Not start world war lll.

Have a good day,

Tim

 

[nicalandia]

I hatched 60 some odd to get what I wanted. If you are going to do out crossing, you had better get ready to hatch a bunch of the chicks. It goes with the territory.

Tim

True, but to expect 75% of the chicks to be culls is way to much for the average breeder, he would need to hatch 70+ eggs, now if he does the F1xNH his chances of getting wheaten chicks(and 50% of them silver barred hens, and golden males) is more realistic, at least to me..