getting to a delaware

[DuckBoy]

Question for you. The end product is still the same getting to delaware.



Barred roo X RIR Hen = F1

F1 X NH hen =???????????

 

[nicalandia]

Question for you. The end product is still the same getting to delaware.



Barred roo X RIR Hen = F1

F1 X NH hen =???????????

yeah its about the same, seeing how RIR and NH are not so much apart(Body type and all) but you will be adding the red intensifier Mahogany, but you will be culling many chicks anyways so always keep an eye for the good ones

 

[catdaddyfro]

yeah its about the same, seeing how RIR and NH are not so much apart(Body type and all) but you will be adding the red intensifier Mahogany, but you will be culling many chicks anyways so always keep an eye for the good ones

Now Marvin this is not correct, a NH and RIR look nothing like one another in TYPE No sir and I'll argue this till your blue in the face.

Go get your armament readied.
And I'm talking SOP birds, not production or hatchery types as these don't meet/have a standard.

Jeff

 

[DuckBoy]

Jeff will you please answer why question from above. thanks cory

 

[Chris09]

Now Marvin this is not correct, a NH and RIR look nothing like one another in TYPE No sir and I'll argue this till your blue in the face.

Go get your armament readied.
And I'm talking SOP birds, not production or hatchery types as these don't meet/have a standard.

Jeff

X2
A well bred Rhode Island Red and a well bred New Hampshire are as different as night and day.

Chris

 

[Chris09]

Jeff will you please answer why question from above. thanks cory

Which, "why question" are you referring to?

Chris

 

[nicalandia]

Now Marvin this is not correct, a NH and RIR look nothing like one another in TYPE No sir and I'll argue this till your blue in the face.

Go get your armament readied.
And I'm talking SOP birds, not production or hatchery types as these don't meet/have a standard.

Jeff

I see you are eager to debate with me, but I wont engage you on a SOP debate as this is not my forte. I´ll engage you on a Genetic debate about how the RIR and NH are genetically close and that to use a BR/RIR F1 male back to NH won't represent any significant setback, Ready to Debate?

X2
A well bred Rhode Island Red and a well bred New Hampshire are as different as night and day.

Chris

as night as day? wow... they have very similar body type, same phenotype(black tail red, the shade of red is another thing all together) almost identical genotype(eWh/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh s+/s+ p+/p+ w/w p+/p+) both lay nice brown eggs and plenty of them, Dual Purpose breeds, and so on and so on, sorry I jut dont see the "Night and Day" difference,

*******************************************************************************


guys maybe Duckboy already has a BR/RIR cross male or he may have access to one... given their genetic history between RIR and NH and seeing how he plans to cross that BR/RIR roo over NH hens whats the issue here? can you care to elaborate what unwanted gene/s may have an affect the BC1,BC2 Delaware like birds? after all he is recreating the Delaware breed not the NH breed so NH SOP will not be required here right?

RIR genes in comon with NH.. eWh/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh p+/p+ s+/s+ w/w s+/+ (yellow skin)

Jeff will you please answer why question from above. thanks cory

any genetic advise pleas P.M me or Tim or Mr. Henk or ask the question here and we will answere the question..

as for the original question. yes you can use the BR/RIR F1 Male, any insignificant difference between RIR and NH(to us genetic geeks, to RIR breeders like Chris or NH breeders like jeff the difference is Huge as night and day) that this male may posses in bodytype(BR/RIR Male) will be outdone by the consecutive crossing to NH you will be doing, not only will you be leaving out the RIR type but also the Barred Rock Type this male or the ideal BR/NH F1 male will inherit from its Barred Rock parent..

here take another look at what Time Adkerson did with the BR/RIR cross

Crossing- I have made the cross but with Rhode island red


Tim

 

[Chris09]

Quote: as night as day? wow... they have very similar body type, same phenotype(black tail red, the shade of red is another thing all together) almost identical genotype(eWh/eWh Co/Co Mh/Mh s+/s+ p+/p+ w/w p+/p+) both lay nice brown eggs and plenty of them, Dual Purpose breeds, and so on and so on, sorry I jut dont see the "Night and Day" difference,




Quote: Are you looking at hatchery bird or the real breeds (non-hatchery)? If you look a the pure breed birds there is a big difference between the two breeds.


Quote: When did Black Tailed Reds have Ticking and or Lacing in there Hackles? The only information that I have read that called them "Black Tailed Reds" were written out side the U.S. where they have bred other breeds into them.



Quote: Is the U.S. or U.K. based? If it is U.K. based I wouldn't go to much off of it since there Red's are not true or pure Rhode Island Reds, they have bred breeds like the Leghorn and Sussex in the there Reds.


Chris

 

[nicalandia]

Are you looking at hatchery bird or the real breeds (non-hatchery)? If you look a the pure breed birds there is a big difference between the two breeds.


Chris

just because you breed SQ RIR that dont mean Hatchery RIR are not Real..



anyways he is trying to get to Delaware not SQ NH so NH SOP does not apply here , and when he gets to Delaware I am sure Hardcore breeders will try to down play his effort..

Duckboy the difference between a geneticist as myself and a Breeders like Chris and jeff is that they see breeding their preferred breeds as an Art form, so when asking a genetic question you will need the help of a geneticist. geneticist take it as it is, Pure Science where 2+2 is four, E/eWh x eWh/eWh = 50% E/eWh & 50% eWh/eWh. so when asking genetic question just know who you need to ask said genetic question, when you need help on tail angle, number of points on their single comb, temperament just go ahead and ask the breeders

 

[nicalandia]

just want to remind the breeder(Duckboy) that he needs not worry about the BR/RIR F1 rooster not having the correct NH type, for the following reasons


1. your goal is a Delaware type bird, not a SQ NH
2. all you want from the BR/RIR F1 sire is only a few genes, you will be getting rid of his Barred Rock type and Rhode Island Red type aswell,
3. by the time you get to BC1(back cross to NH) your birds will be 75% NH and you would have regain alot of type by that time..


genes you will be picking up from Barred rock, the dominant Sex linked Silver gene and the Dominant Sex linked Barring.
genes you will be picking up from RIR that will help you out are, yellow skin(same as NH) wheaten eWh(same as NH) Columbian Restrictor Co(Same as NH)
gene you will need to get ridd of by the BC1 cross chicks is recessive sex linked gold(s+) by this time the Extended Black gene(E) found on Barred rock(self black with barring) will be long gone(E black/Barred chicks culled at the BR/RIR x NH chicks stage)

so again you are good to go to use the BR/RIR F1 rooster is thats what you have got at this time