Giving chicks soil to build immunity to coccidiosis, but doesn’t that expose them to worms as well?

[Randomlyassigned]

My flock experienced coccidiosis (two strains- not the bloody kind) and roundworms this year- I lost nearly half my flock to coccidiosis side effects (damage that they couldn’t recover from even after it was treated). These chickens were all on medicated feed, but both corid and albon failed to help. Endocox did fix the coccidiosis but not the damage it caused.

I am not able to build or move my coop or run. I am getting chicks in February to replenish my flock, but I am worried about their exposure to cocci and worms. I do not want to relive the year I had this year! I have read that it’s good to give them soil from the run early on to build cocci immunity, but I am worried about that also exposing them to roundworms at an age too young to deworm or manage a natural parasite load.

How can I best care for my chicks to prepare them for when they move out to the coop and run? How can I best prepare the coop and run for them? Or should I just hold off on any exposure and then prepare to treat them for cocci a few days after they move into the coop?

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

You can feed medicated feed while they’re in the brooder and give them a chunk of soil for exposure. I haven’t heard that this puts them at risk for roundworms so hopefully someone else has more info on that. But if you do the brooder-soil method they should be able to build up cocci immunity by the time you put them outside and then you can stop the medicated feed a few weeks after that I believe.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Actually the idea with early exposure is to NOT give them medicated feed... you want them to get a gradual build up of the coccidiosis in your environment and have their bodies adjust to tolerate it.

Given the past issues with coccidiosis, make sure you have your Endocox ready to go, as it sounds like the strains you're dealing with are a lot more aggressive or difficult to kill off.

That said, I've never thought about how to work around roundworms. Since my flock has them that means my chicks get exposed to them as well, but it's never caused any issue.

 

[Ridgerunner]

My chickens have never had roundworms so I haven't studied them in that much detail. I butcher several times each year. Part of my butchering process is to split some of the intestines open to look for worms, never seen any.

I'm not sure where you are located (country) so not sure what is allowed where you are. I'm not sure what medication you used to treat roundworms in your country so I don't know what restrictions you have about giving that medication to young chicks.

The idea of giving them dirt from your run is to expose them to coccidiosis and anything else that your flock might have early so they can develop what immunities they can. If you do that in the brooder you should be able to keep the brooder dry. In most cases keeping the brooder dry will prevent the number of the coccidiosis bug from increasing enough to cause harm until they develop that immunity. Many years ago @speckledhen posted about how feeding dirt to her chicks in the brooder had prevented what was always a coccidiosis problem before. It does not always work but it often does. You can probably observe them better while they are in the brooder as opposed to in the coop and run.

You have identified two different strains of coccidiosis, at least one is strong enough to be dangerous. You do not want to kill out that coccidiosis bug until they have developed immunity buy you also don't want them to die. I'd suggest having your medication handy and treating all of them immediately at seeing any sign.

Feeding them dirt will expose them to anything else in the soil. Roundworm eggs can last a very long time so the chicks will almost certainly be exposed. From what I read it takes about 28 days for the eggs to mature inside the intestines to the point they can start reproducing. As @rosemarythyme kind of said roundworms don't seem to affect hers that much. From how long the roundworm eggs last I think you will be dealing with roundworms as long as you have chickens.

My suggestion would be to treat your flock for roundworms a couple of weeks before you get the chicks to reduce the amount of roundworm eggs in your soil, but realize they are going to be exposed anyway.

At some point they are going to be exposed to coccidiosis and roundworms. You can't keep them in a completely sterile environment all of their life. I think you are better off exposing them early so they can start developing what immunities they can. There is no perfect solution.

 

[speckledhen]

Many years ago @speckledhen posted about how feeding dirt to her chicks in the brooder had prevented what was always a coccidiosis problem before. It does not always work but it often does. You can probably observe them better while they are in the brooder as opposed to in the coop and run.

I do put dirt in the brooder from a few days old. They naturally pick at it and consume some of it. Helps them build natural immunity to the oocysts in the soil that cause the ailment. It's basically mimicing what a mother hen would be doing, getting her chicks outdoors early and teaching them to look for food while they ingest some soil and grit. I have rarely had to treat coccisidiosis since I started that over ten years ago. Worth a try!

 

[FunClucks]

Thank you this was a helpful response!

I am also wondering how to handle the fact that my chicks will be vaccinated for Mareks. I do not have confirmed Mareks in my flock, but I am trying to be cautious because a few of my birds in the coop with the bad coccidiosis outbreak had this progression over several months: extremely watery diarrhea, shrinking and pale comb, extreme weight loss even after diarrhea resolved with endocox and deworming, gradual stumbling and ultimately inability to stand up then death. They all COULD move both legs, they would kick them around, but became too weak to stand over time.

My dominant theory is that this was due to severe gut damage causing malnutrition. But I decided to have my next round of chicks vaccinated to be safe.

So now I’m juggling the need to build cocci immunity since I KNOW we had cocci and roundworms (vet confirmed cocci and I saw the worms). But I can’t 100% rule out other issues and I know with the mareks vaccine you’re not supposed to expose them to things the older birds have had contact with.

Thoughts?

Merek's vaccine only prevents symptoms, doesn't prevent the chicks from contracting the disease. It helps infected chickens live longer, with better quality of life. They can also expose other chickens, since they still have the disease, so it's very important, if you suspect this, to keep a closed flock. Merek's spreads through chicken dander, feather bits, etc. Once it's in an environment it's almost impossible to get out. In your situation, vaccination for Merek's when done properly at the hatchery, should give your chicks the best chance of a good life in your environment. Keep your medicine on hand that you know treats your strain of coccidiosis and treat once first symptoms of that appear.

From the symptoms you describe of their decline, it does sound like you've got something else going on besides coccidiosis and roundworms. For a definitive answer, you'll need to send a freshly deceased chicken off to a state vet for an autopsy. Refridgerate them, then ship how the laboratory directs. Their website will tell you how to store, prepare, and ship a recently deceased chicken.

So if you have another one die after experiencing all these symptoms, I'd consider sending it off for analysis. They can be reasonably affordable. Here's the website to find your closest state lab. Sorry you're dealing with this. It really sucks.

https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

 

[Randomlyassigned]

Merek's vaccine only prevents symptoms, doesn't prevent the chicks from contracting the disease. It helps infected chickens live longer, with better quality of life. They can also expose other chickens, since they still have the disease, so it's very important, if you suspect this, to keep a closed flock. Merek's spreads through chicken dander, feather bits, etc. Once it's in an environment it's almost impossible to get out. In your situation, vaccination for Merek's when done properly at the hatchery, should give your chicks the best chance of a good life in your environment. Keep your medicine on hand that you know treats your strain of coccidiosis and treat once first symptoms of that appear.

From the symptoms you describe of their decline, it does sound like you've got something else going on besides coccidiosis and roundworms. For a definitive answer, you'll need to send a freshly deceased chicken off to a state vet for an autopsy. Refridgerate them, then ship how the laboratory directs. Their website will tell you how to store, prepare, and ship a recently deceased chicken.

So if you have another one die after experiencing all these symptoms, I'd consider sending it off for analysis. They can be reasonably affordable. Here's the website to find your closest state lab. Sorry you're dealing with this. It really sucks.

https://www.metzerfarms.com/poultry-labs.html

I am contacting the vet to determine the exact strains they found of coccidiosis. From my reading and the symptoms, I suspect that they had E. Maxima for a period of several weeks, which caused severe damage and inability to absorb nutrients. I was noticing the watery diarrhea for a couple of weeks before a bird actually started to act sick from it and then discovered she was really thin. I didn’t think it was cocci until she seemed to start acting sick so I got the fecal, because there was no blood.

None of them ever had paralysis or weird eye stuff like I’ve read about for mareks, just couldn’t put weight back on after the cocci and got weaker and weaker over time. I really don’t think that mareks is likely.

Even still, I want every possible protection and vaccine in place because it was heartbreaking!

The hatchery doesn’t offer cocci vaccines, so I am just trying to figure out how to help build that immunity while maintaining the biosecurity recommended for the Mareks vaccine.