GMO soy and corn in chicken feed? Discussion

[U_Stormcrow]

Nothing is every completely perfect. You have to a cost/benefit analysis. After assessing, having the FDA is far better than not having it. Far better. We actually did not suspend anything for the virus, a risk-based approach, which is what the agency uses anyway, was used. The concerns on testing are valid. We definitely need more tests distributed widely, but this pandemic showcases more about how good the biomed process including the FDA rather than the flaws. Of course it can be improved, but if we did not have the bizarre culture war around the vaccines this pandemic would be largly under control and our main concern would be getting vaccines to underserved countries to stop variants.

"Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. The HHS declaration to support such use must be based on one of four types of determinations of threats or potential threats by the Secretary of HHS, Homeland Security, or Defense."

Source

Approvals occured promptly via a suspension of the normal course of business, as I said. Legal, yes. But normal approval processes were brushed aside, on an emergency basis. I happen to think the FDA delays too much - is too precautionary - as the Moderna and Pfizer approvals would seem to support, as well as the at home testing delays we are currently suffering.

Your argument seems to be FDA or nothing. Its a strawman. Moreover, its not the argument I'm making. Consider, for instance, safe storage of eggs for human consumption - a matter of importance here at BYC. Our FDA, and the health authorities in the EU have evaluated the same concern - how to get eggs safely from commercial hens to consumer use, and reached radically different conclusions as to "best processes". Both have ensconced their process into the relevant law. Those laws don't force "best practices" - the EU and the FDA processes aren't compatible. They merely force a process consistent with regulation. Whether or not its "best" is immaterial. Perhaps the regulations were best at the time of their crafting - perhaps not - for an assumed set of circumstances. If those circumstances change, or the assumptions prove untrue, revised regulation follows very slowly - and typically opposed by entrenched interests. That's the nature of the world.

I'd prefer a more nimble approach, even if it involves more risk.

 

[Weeg]

You are welcome. Apologies if I came across as harsh. You should also look into Roundup (glyphosate). Honestly, millions would be dead now due to starvation of this was not available. And I am aware of the WHO position and the recent court judgements but they are not backed up by the literature. It is far to easy to up dosages and apply these chemicals in ways they are not designed to be used for and stack the evidence. Some of that is going on around glyphosate research.

I'm not against RoundUp in general, and have to agree with everyone as to how pesticides and GMO crops make food cheeper for people. My only concern was pesticides used on crops in chicken feed. Not chicken feed in general, (since this makes it cheeper and easier for others to farm chickens, and produce food for themselves) but chicken feed for my flock, and others backyard flocks. Like the threads you see were people ask if Organic is worth it. My answer is yes, because of the articles I've read about the risks in general.
Just my point of view.

 

[AgnesGray]

We love New Country Organics soy-free feed. They also have a corn-free option as well as wheat-free and other options. Opinions about organic and GMOs aside, we love their flavor!

We've taken in over 100 chickens this year and their poop is always awful when they get here and the smell is so much better within a few days. I've been told it's soy, but who knows.

 

[Fallenone05]

I mean like.. mercury is organic but I wouldn't eat it. Just because something is organic doesn't mean it's better or healthier for you.

GMO feeds are what's sustaining the planet right now - GMO plants are better resistant to certain diseases and pests so they produce more and weigh more.

I do agree that RoundUp and companies like Monsanto are garbage because of their flagrant use of pesticides and killing of honeybees/native bee population in general. I also don't like the Monopoly system that Monsanto has and their way of destroying a farmer if they don't use their seeds.

There's lots of nuance to GMO and stuff that I don't understand since I'm not a biologist or someone that studies or even works in that field. You have to keep in mind that without GMO crops we'd definitely have a food shortage with the way our population has sky rocketed on the entire planet, and our animal husbandry scale.

I think the US ships the most corn and soybean product out of the entire planet, and I frequently see soybean planted here in Oklahoma. It's a huge cash crop.

 

[Brooks_]

GMO has been around since man started selective breeding

Please do not compare hybrids (something that could happen in nature) with GMO. GMO will never happen in nature.

 

[lesliedow]

Please do not compare hybrids (something that could happen in nature) with GMO. GMO will never happen in nature.

Not referriong to hybrids, I am referring to selection for specific traits.

 

[RooStar Chicken Gang]

I'd ask what the basis is for that absurdly broad, sweeping generalization, but given your past assertions that Avian Influenza is "another scam played on the ignorant masses" and that "Flus and viruses are just the bodies natural detoxing process" I wouldn't be able to take any answer you gave seriously.

Then why ask if you don't want to know? Just trying to mock me? I don't entertain low lives anyway.

 

[Brooks_]

Not referriong to hybrids, I am referring to selection for specific traits.

Which GMO does not. Try as I might, I will never make a bt cotton in the greenhouse. Selective breeding is not genetic modification.

 

[ChickenLeg]

I have to agree gene splicing is different than selective breeding

 

[lesliedow]

"Under section 564 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act), when the Secretary of HHS declares that an emergency use authorization is appropriate, FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions caused by CBRN threat agents when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. The HHS declaration to support such use must be based on one of four types of determinations of threats or potential threats by the Secretary of HHS, Homeland Security, or Defense."

Source

Approvals occured promptly via a suspension of the normal course of business, as I said. Legal, yes. But normal approval processes were brushed aside, on an emergency basis. I happen to think the FDA delays too much - is too precautionary - as the Moderna and Pfizer approvals would seem to support, as well as the at home testing delays we are currently suffering.

Your argument seems to be FDA or nothing. Its a strawman. Moreover, its not the argument I'm making. Consider, for instance, safe storage of eggs for human consumption - a matter of importance here at BYC. Our FDA, and the health authorities in the EU have evaluated the same concern - how to get eggs safely from commercial hens to consumer use, and reached radically different conclusions as to "best processes". Both have ensconced their process into the relevant law. Those laws don't force "best practices" - the EU and the FDA processes aren't compatible. They merely force a process consistent with regulation. Whether or not its "best" is immaterial. Perhaps the regulations were best at the time of their crafting - perhaps not - for an assumed set of circumstances. If those circumstances change, or the assumptions prove untrue, revised regulation follows very slowly - and typically opposed by entrenched interests. That's the nature of the world.

I'd prefer a more nimble approach, even if it involves more risk.

EUA is within the law and the guidelines--which you. just stated as did I. I did say it was risk-based as all actions by the agency are. My argument is not all or nothing it is to respect what the agency provides us--which is food and medical safety that is best in the world and the best it has ever been in human history. EVER. We live now in a time where conditions are better than they have ever been and in a coutry where we live the best and longest lives than ever before (well exccept that we are now losing some of those gains). The FDA and these regulations while seeming obtuse and burdensome are largely responsible for that.

There is always room for improvement. But the agency and our lawmakers respond to the populations acceptance of risk which, based on what we see in the courts, is pretty darn low. So your safe storage of eggs is up against someone's willingness to sue. Tort reform is a much bigger nut to crack.

I disagree that there is a lot of difference between the FDA and the EU. There is some but fundamentally there are more similarities. My area is clinical studies, devices, and design controls, and the EU and FDA are converging on ISO 13485, many of the recent changes in guidances reflect that. I see this both on the device/design control side and on the clinical regulations. Where there are other convergences. But in general there are more similarities than differences.