Go team "Tube Feeding!" - Updated 12/29/2019

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Wow, he sounds like a tough one. I can't help but wonder what's going on him because in all the years I have been tubing, I have not had one pass out like this.

I am hesitant to offer any suggestions because it sounds like the act of tubing him is very close to sending him over the edge.

At 3 kg, he needs at least 150 ml of fluids per day, so you have to find a way to get that into him plus make up for the deficit.

Once of mu books says to give fluids, wait 60-90 minutes and repeat, and this is what I have been doing as it seems to really help.
View attachment 1969848

He was acting about the same this AM, except that he passed a small amount of normal looking poop, which he has not been doing. We let him wander around the garage a bit and I got this pic so you could see who you’re helping - Vespucci, 1.5 yr old black male Ameraucana. Pic in the run is from when he was feeling well and was the head rooster of our bachelor pad. He has always been flighty, and since the tubing, he’s now quite afraid of me; he actually jumped up on the hay trying to get away from me while loose in the garage this AM but did not pass out. I’m guessing that his passing out is a combo of low blood volume with anemia combined with a big sympathetic stress response that his circulatory system can’t keep up with.

I unfortunately don’t have a “pre” weight on him, but did get a weight this AM at 2010 g. So, if he is 5% dehydrated then he needs 100 ml fluid for replacement plus 100 mL for today’s maintenance. I don’t think I want to try for three tubings of fluid when he’s reacting so badly to the stress of tubing. I think I’ll go ahead with 60 ml in a few min, then maybe 100 ml this PM, if that goes ok?

 

[casportpony]

I just had a thought, and I don't know if this is the problem of not, but it's possible that when handling him that you are putting too much pressure on the jugular vein that's on the right side of his neck (it's bigger and more pronounced than the left).

At 2010 grams I would give 60 ml now, then another 60 ml in 60 to 90 minutes. Doing this should get the poop moving. If no poop after the second tubing, do another 60 ml
in 2 hours.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Ok, we’ve now given two 60 mL doses of half strength Gatorade. The first time went very well, with no passing out afterwards. The second time he looked brighter, and he fought us more and then passed out again after. He stood up again about 30 seconds after putting him back in his cage. I feel like we are pushing our luck to try this a third time in a short time span... Should I add food next? For tonight or tomorrow AM?

Edited to add that we are not restricting or pushing on his neck at all, because I want to be able to feel the tube and crop.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I just had a thought, and I don't know if this is the problem of not, but it's possible that when handling him that you are putting too much pressure on the jugular vein that's on the right side of his neck (it's bigger and more pronounced than the left).

At 2010 grams I would give 60 ml now, then another 60 ml in 60 to 90 minutes. Doing this should get the poop moving. If no poop after the second tubing, do another 60 ml
in 2 hours.

We did give Vespy a third 60 mL dose of fluids at bedtime - no passing out, so he passed out for only one tubing yesterday. I am planning to give him 50 mL, 1/2 crop volume?, omnivore Emeraid this morning. I will need to switch him to Kaytee after a few feedings as I don’t have a lot of Emeraid. I’ll do some reading and try to figure out how to get to his maintenance food requirements.

 

[casportpony]

Tubing is part art, part science. One needs to figure out how to get the 5% minimum of fluids per day as well as enough calories to keep them from losing more weight.

Once you gain more confidence you should be able to tube the total crop volume to him.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

Tubing is part art, part science. One needs to figure out how to get the 5% minimum of fluids per day as well as enough calories to keep them from losing more weight.

Once you gain more confidence you should be able to tube the total crop volume to him.

So before tubing Vespy this morning, I opened his cage door and then put his food back in to see if he’d eat. He wasn’t up for exploring the garage today, but he did walk over to the chick crumbles and park there. He ate and ate and ate like he hadn’t seen food in weeks. He then went over to the water and took some good drinks. I’ll reweigh him again today and respray for mites as well. If he’s not maintaining weight we will go back to tubing, but the psychological shock from losing top roo position may have been a big part of his problem as he’s been acting so odd (very afraid of everything, including us). We will keep him inside until we feel he’s stable in maintaining weight and more normal attitude. If he lives, he will be the first chicken that we’ve successfully treated for anything serious (others all died of Marek’s). Please don’t stress, Vespucci, and don’t come down with Marek’s!!! Thank you so much @casportpony for your help with him!!!

 

[casportpony]

How's he doing?

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

How's he doing?

He seems a lot better, eating and drinking on his own. His weight was up to 2210 g yesterday, so almost 10% more than his starting weight. I think that his problems probably started about two months ago when he somehow broke about 1/3 off of his upper beak. He could still eat and drink but I worried that he’d lose his head roo position. He kept it until last week, when we found him cowering and with his head feathers plucked. That’s also when we discovered that he was crawling in mites. So, now he’s recovering, but it looks like his beak has not quite grown back right. I think that we need to dremel both upper and lower beak so they fit together right. I just wanted to give him a few days more to recover before trying something so stressful. Once we do that, we should monitor again to make sure he’s eating ok. Then he can go back out. I am worried that he will lose his cold tolerance spending time in our garage... We are also still discussing where his new home will be as I doubt he can go back in the bachelor pad...

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

How's he doing?

I have a sad update on Vespucci. Unfortunately, it looks like he is indeed affected by Marek’s disease virus. He started out with some weakness in his right leg, which could have been an injury from the fight where he lost his head rooster status. However, I was suspicious, since we have Marek’s in our flock, and we’ve seen others start with leg weakness. The leg appeared to stabilize and the rooster was much improved after a few days of eating and drinking well. Unfortunately, his condition deteriorated yesterday, when he became much weaker in his ability to use both legs. At that point, I was pretty sure it was Marek’s again, but DD was heartbroken as he had been such a “miracle cure”, so we gave him another day. Unfortunately, he is worse today, and continues to look like he has Marek’s disease. I plan to euthanize tonight and submit him for testing at our state veterinary diagnostic lab. I submit all euthanized birds for testing so we can keep track of whether we are acquiring any new diseases and whether our vaccination program is working. Thank you for your help, @casportpony ! Not the outcome we wanted, but he had a few good days, and at least we know that we did all we could.

 

[casportpony]

Post #1 updated