Good meat breeds for small scale production?

[Kris5902]

I don't get hung up on hybrid vigor. It's real, don't get me wrong, but I consider it equivalent to genetic diversity. When you breed your own birds through the generations to get a product more suited to your goals you are eliminating genetic diversity. You are getting rid of genes that give you traits you don't want and enhancing the genetics you do want. That's how all breeds ave been developed.

If a line of birds is too inbred they can become unthrifty, they may become less fertile, they can develop other problems. Introducing outside blood will increase genetic diversity/bring in hybrid vigor but you also introduce genetics that might not meet your goals. There is a line, sometimes a fine line, between keeping a thrifty flock and eliminating genetics you don't want. Breeders have different techniques to manage this and you are in essence becoming a breeder if you go the route of developing your own birds. Even without those special techniques you can usually go several generations of inbreeding (keeping your replacement breeders) before you run into lack of genetic diversity problems.

In the US we can get Cornish Cross chicks from different hatcheries without signing on with the big commercial operations. I don't know how that works in Canada. With your Province rules about Cornish X and the numbers you want you rule them out anyway. Are you going to have the same issues flying in Rangers or dual purpose birds to get your flock started.

On that island I can see why you want to have your own laying flock and hatch your own eggs. I did that even though I often got mailed chicks the day after they were put in the mail from the hatchery. With your goals as I understand them you can try that purely with dual purpose birds or you can introduce Rangers in the mix. You are going to have the exact same genetic diversity/hybrid vigor issues either way.

I don’t mind the occasional expense of flying in chicks for start up and adding genetics, but for the constant monthly or bi/monthly deliveries it’s not the best solution. I’m also willing to drive long distances and take the ferries to bring in stock. I’ve got a fairly good system for bringing chicks past the 72hr mark in a vehicle... basically mobile brooders with ecoglow heaters and an inverter for my vehicle.

I’m thinking as I get set up and establish a breeding flock I can run some Mistral Gris to get a start on the season. And I know I’ll be looking at a long term project. It’s impressive the results you can get in a little carefully planned outcrossing. So far our outcrossing in our cattle operation looks to have had good results. A few more generations will tell for sure though.

I’m torn between staggering small batches to start so I can offer fresh product through the store and getting a few large batches to minimize shipping costs.

 

[Compost King]

More important than the breed where you get the birds from. I just got Delaware last spring the I thought would go into my (Heritage Breed) X Red Ranger project but they turned out to be Skimpy little lightweight birds. I got them at Ideal Poultry. The following breeds are the ones I am looking for in my meat bird experiments.

Delaware
Heritage Cornish
Plymouth Rocks
Dorkings (already have a quality set of these)
New Hampshire Red
Buckeye
Silkies (yes they are Bantams but they grow so fast that they can be larger than some large fowl the same age for the first month or 2)

I will only be looking for breeders for these breeds or going to a hatchery that offers birds that were selectively choose for meat qualities like https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com (I know, not an option for Canada)

You can also get a variety of those Freedom Ranger type of birds (not sure about options in Canada) you can cross 2 different varieties and keep Genetic Diversity. @duluthralphie did this although he used CX but you can cross Dixie Rainbows and Red Rangers, or any other of the free ranging varieties of meat birds. That way you can keep a sustainable flock. And maybe Once a year head out and get a new free range meat hybrid to add in for breeding. Use a new rooster of a new breed/hybrid every spring to keep a vigorous flock would work. I hope you keep us updated on what you do and what works best and what didn't work out so well.

 

[Kris5902]

More important than the breed where you get the birds from. I just got Delaware last spring the I thought would go into my (Heritage Breed) X Red Ranger project but they turned out to be Skimpy little lightweight birds. I got them at Ideal Poultry. The following breeds are the ones I am looking for in my meat bird experiments.

Delaware
Heritage Cornish
Plymouth Rocks
Dorkings (already have a quality set of these)
New Hampshire Red
Buckeye
Silkies (yes they are Bantams but they grow so fast that they can be larger than some large fowl the same age for the first month or 2)

I will only be looking for breeders for these breeds or going to a hatchery that offers birds that were selectively choose for meat qualities like https://www.freedomrangerhatchery.com (I know, not an option for Canada)

You can also get a variety of those Freedom Ranger type of birds (not sure about options in Canada) you can cross 2 different varieties and keep Genetic Diversity. @duluthralphie did this although he used CX but you can cross Dixie Rainbows and Red Rangers, or any other of the free ranging varieties of meat birds. That way you can keep a sustainable flock. And maybe Once a year head out and get a new free range meat hybrid to add in for breeding. Use a new rooster of a new breed/hybrid every spring to keep a vigorous flock would work. I hope you keep us updated on what you do and what works best and what didn't work out so well.

Yep, and anything that doesn’t make the cut will become a stewing bird or soup for us. I’ve learned so much here, I’m very grateful for all the informative threads and details on what people are working on, their goals, and progress.

Although I think the Mistrals will work as a good entry point to the local market, I’m Leary of using a 4 way hybrid (similar breeding as a CX) in a breeding program due to the instability of the results. The dedication, patience and ingenuity of @duluthralphie and the TOADs is inspiring, even if it is not quite what I’m aspiring to with my breeding goals.

I love how everyone here at backyardchickens are welcoming and willing to share their experiences and expertise in poultry. I may have stumbled upon this place due to an almost tragically bad hatch, (I’m more of a book learner than a networker, and was quite desperate and distressed when things went sideways on me) but I have to say this community has become my most important resource in all things poultry.

thank You all so much!

 

[Birdinhand]

So far, I have not seen anything that comes even remotely close to the CX. keep in mind there are many varieties. I've settled on the COBB 500, they are lively, robust and amazing producers. the quality of the bird comes down to care and feed and I feel that I have learned some tricks that result in a gourmet product that folks rave about around the dinner table. we grow out about 70 a year to feed a family of 4. it is a bummer that there is no way to breed them true, having to mail order them is a bummer. The person who figures out how to make a breed that comes even close to CX productivity but breeds true will by a hero!

 

[Kris5902]

So far, I have not seen anything that comes even remotely close to the CX. keep in mind there are many varieties. I've settled on the COBB 500, they are lively, robust and amazing producers. the quality of the bird comes down to care and feed and I feel that I have learned some tricks that result in a gourmet product that folks rave about around the dinner table. we grow out about 70 a year to feed a family of 4. it is a bummer that there is no way to breed them true, having to mail order them is a bummer. The person who figures out how to make a breed that comes even close to CX productivity but breeds true will by a hero!

I don't think it is possible to get a true breeding CX like bird... the research and investment into the various CX breeds is quite the phenomenon. I believe it’s a LOT of line breeding, careful selection, and crossing and back crossing that results in the commercial broiler with the specific traits of the CX, and that combined with hybrid vigor has produced the super feed to meat conversion and speed of growth to market size that redefined the chicken market .

Maybe they can be made better, maybe with enough back crossing, out crossing and selection they could be part of an even more “superior” meat bird. But it takes many generations to stabilize a hybrid with such a varied lineage. (I was heavily interested and involved in plant breeding and hybridization in my younger days here in BC). Also some of the traits that the CX find desirable are less so for pasture raising, free ranging, and reliable reproduction.

I don’t believe there is a one size fits all solution to every meat bird situation, I’m not knocking the CX or saying the Mistral Gris or any heritage breed is equivalent or better... they take a little, or sometimes a lot longer. If they aren’t white feathered thats an extra $1/bird to process here. But I’m looking to sell meat as well as feed our farm (7minimum-12 adults), with a 200 bird limit and a minimum island population of 300 people, plus shipping difficulties with our location, I can safely say the CX is not the right bird for my situation.

 

[123RedBeard]

While I've never tried it ... once I have time and space ...

My "hair-brained" idea is to get/keep two lines of the same breed, but different varieties of the same breed.

For example for me it will probably be Single Comb (SC) Colored Dorkings & Rose Comb (RC) Colored Dorkings. (Maybe throw a Red Dorking in every five years?)

Keep the lines separate, but when you want "meaties" swap the cocks, then in 3-4 weeks hatch out your meat chicks ... they should grow out faster, and larger than their parents ... should, I have not tried this yet.

Since white feathers are desired ... maybe a White Plymouth Rock, and a Columbian Plymouth Rock pairing? Or a a White Chantecler?

 

[Compost King]

While I've never tried it ... once I have time and space ...

My "hair-brained" idea is to get/keep two lines of the same breed, but different varieties of the same breed.

For example for me it will probably be Single Comb (SC) Colored Dorkings & Rose Comb (RC) Colored Dorkings. (Maybe throw a Red Dorking in every five years?)

Keep the lines separate, but when you want "meaties" swap the cocks, then in 3-4 weeks hatch out your meat chicks ... they should grow out faster, and larger than their parents ... should, I have not tried this yet.

Since white feathers are desired ... maybe a White Plymouth Rock, and a Columbian Plymouth Rock pairing? Or a a White Chantecler?

Sounds like a great idea to me even if it can be labeled "hair brained" (which all my ideas seem to be), you can keep a breed true to the breed and put Genetic Diversity into them at the same time. I do this my Marans when making dark egg black sex links, not exactly a meat bird but I can see a bit more vigor in them Compared the parents.

 

[muddy75]

let me first say that i by no means am an expert here but i feel i can offer a bit of insight based on my own experience. I started with a goal of keeping poultry primarily for meat and working up to breeding for sustainability. unlike your situation, my other half only agreed to silkies if I agreed that they would be meatbirds as well. i currently have a mixed flock but my originals are rir and ba. my main issue is that at nearly 6 mo old, I have zero layers and none seem large enough yet for meat.
I often wonder if based on desire for meat, if i made the right decision on my chicken breeds vs going with cx. the overall feed savings by faster growth would have more than offset purchase/shipping costs. my b.b. turkeys on the other hand have been a good meat yield at 14-20 weeks.

 

[Kris5902]

While I've never tried it ... once I have time and space ...

My "hair-brained" idea is to get/keep two lines of the same breed, but different varieties of the same breed.

For example for me it will probably be Single Comb (SC) Colored Dorkings & Rose Comb (RC) Colored Dorkings. (Maybe throw a Red Dorking in every five years?)

Keep the lines separate, but when you want "meaties" swap the cocks, then in 3-4 weeks hatch out your meat chicks ... they should grow out faster, and larger than their parents ... should, I have not tried this yet.

Since white feathers are desired ... maybe a White Plymouth Rock, and a Columbian Plymouth Rock pairing? Or a a White Chantecler?

That’s sort of along the same lines as what I’m thinking... if I pick just one breed, I’m probably going to run into problems with inbreeding sooner. If I keep a few different meat breeds it might make it easier for me to keep the lines straight, as long as I focus on similar desirable traits. I’m not worried about having a pure breed for the most part, or the superior efficiency of a CX, but a solid sustainable meat bird, and if I can introduce a little vigor through cross breeding then that’s a bonus.

 

[aliciaplus3]

I am currently working with a hatchery delaware crossed with a Large white roo(he was a gift no real idea what his breed is) the last batch showed some promise with Big Boy getting to just over 5 pounds at 12 weeks.... No we did not process him as I desire to breed his lineage forward. we also had several black barred cross that I can only guess came from one of my cuckoo marans girls and the same roo that hit 3 pounds at the same time... not as big but not bad. My next bird purchase will be from Sandhill Preservation center,,,, a hatchery?? but not?? I am looking at the reviews they have for their delawares and white rocks and hope that they will help in achieving my goals.

this is big boy at 13 weeks old in front of a Six month old German Bielfelder roo.