Here is tr brooder with my practice chickie! The brooder is 4x5x2 and is for 15 chicks. I think we wil get a second lamp. I was also thinking of putting the food and water on an old cookie sheet so it doesn't get buried in the shavings. I just had Home Depot cut up two sheets of ply wood and DH put it together with L brackets and screws. Cost $60.