Great Pyr Puppy Problem

[Trinity Oaks]

We would not tolerate aggression from and LGD or from a house pet. Your posts make it sound as if you have a dog that will be very large but definately not an LGD if you actually are going to do with it all the things that you say you'd like to do. Depending on the breeding of your particular dog (parents who were excellent LGD's or not) you might have a very difficult job of getting this pup to do the things you'd like if it comes from great LGD stock. From your comments I think you should decide if it is an LGD or a pet. If it is an LGD then there have been some excellent comments on this thread in how to quickly discipline the dog. If it's going to be a pet, you might want to quickly consider enrolling it in a training class where you can get some immediate hands-on help.

 

[bagendhens]

i do agree wiht the poster who said leash traning is a must...
no matter if its a working lgd or a "pet" doesnt matter, having the dog (especially one that large) have at the very least BASIC leash and obedience manners (sit, down stay) are increidbly important, you and potentially the vet are oging to need to hendle it on occasion at the very least, having an almost 200lbs dog who doesnt respect the leash is like tying string to a bear...useless and dangerous!

the animals i worked with in the zoo were not pets they wre not performing animals most of them wre breeding stock that never even saw the public through bars...but we worked very hard on basic manners and "tricks" that made working wiht the animal and the VET alot easier, its much easier to teach an elephant to open its mouth or raise a foot than tranq it every time it needs to be checked by the vet, much easier to teach a lion or hyena to stand side on at the cage wall so it can easily be tranqed without having to stress it by shooting at it ect...basic behaviours like sitting on command or raising a paw or opening the mouth ect make life a bajillion tiemes easier for the rare occasions that these animals DO need human interaction. An LGD is no different...

have you ever seen how a dog reacts to a leash if its never been walked on one before? now imagine that stubborn mule sit, squealing, rolling ect with a dog that wighs more than most people lol.
better to train them and hope to never need to use it than never bother and actually need it...

 

[welsummerchicks]

I've worked with LGD breeds, never had any problem like that. Ever.

If a dog is not trained early on, and worked with in a way to develop any obedience for the first year of its life, sure, it's going to act like that.

Yes, I have worked with Pyrenees. Never had any problem with them myself - though I was asked to help with 'em because the owners didn't train them and then wound up with a year old untrained 160 lb completely non-listening dog that was 100% spoiled and did what it exactly pleased.

I see no reason why a dog chosen to be a LGD can't have basic obedience, nor how it would survive without it.

 

[pmhobia]

Quote:
She is being raised as a LGD. I want to clarify myself by saying when I picked her up, it was to restrain her until she gave in to me. This took a bit of time as she was snapping and snarling all the way. I did not pick her up to "pet" her.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Yeah, but you are still rewarding the behavior if you are not punishing it, you either scruff that pup or it will continue to bite you. Holding it til it 'settles down' isn't going to teach it not to bite, is the bottom line.

Here's the thing about the LGD - it's supposed to protect the stock, not bite its owner.

And folks, actually, scruffing or disciplining a puppy doesn't mean someone is advocating KILLING it, for heaven's sake.

And yes if you take a pup from its mother at 6 weeks, it is going to miss its additional 4 to 6 weeks of scruffing it gets from its mother - that means you're going to do more to make up for that.

This happens as a problem with orphan horses too - they often will get very aggressive with humans as they haven't had that vital discipline from the mother - and people aren't always up for taking on the role of the mother horse in raising its offspring.

 

[pmhobia]

Quote:
Thanks for the advice!

 

[carolinagirl58]

There is no reason you can't have fun with a working dog. Probably 75% of the Anatolian shepherds that are in AKC shows have full time LGD jobs. They live with their livestock, but also are happy to go out into the world and do things. You CAN have it both ways! You can be successful with fun stuff too (Ralley, agility, obedience) when they are young, but once they hit puberty they kind of don't see the point in silly games anymore. Get the pup well socialized and get some strong obedience training happening. He may not obey as well once he is grown, but this dog does need to have a strong bond with his owner. Most of us don't have 1000's of acres of land for the dogs to protect. Because of that, I want my dog to be comfortable and happy with his human family as well as his hoofed family.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Quote:
First, your puppy was acquired TOO YOUNG. She missed important lessons from her littermates about bite inhibition, and etc. This can't be undone now, but is something to keep in mind. I would advise you to do an internet search on BITE INHBITION and read up on why teaching this is so important with puppies. Look for an article by SHIRLEY CHONG. If you can't find it, PM me and I will dig it up for you.

Next, of course she wants to chew and bite everything, this is natural and normal for a puppy her age. I NEVER EVER use any negative reinforcement or punishment with puppies this age. NEVER. You need to deal with the issue by managing the puppy, using a crate, exercise pens, outdoor time, and positive reward based training.

Second, NO HITTING. EVER. This includes anything hitting or striking related. No "tapping", popping, bumping, whatsoever. This will get you the result you just experienced, and will teach your puppy that you are unpredictable and not to be trusted.

It can be helpful with puppies this age to let them drag a short leash when you are present so you have a handle to get control of them.

It is VERY IMPORTANT at this age to work hard to catch your puppy doing something right, and reward them for it. Once you get started in this frame of mind and with this sort of training, it builds on itself. STOP focusing on the negative, and START focusing on the positive.

Manage your puppy's life so that she has little chance to do the wrong thing, using the above mentioned tools. Use LOTS of positive reward based training time to teach your puppy how to live to suit your expectations.

A few training articles that I have written that might be helpful to you:

http://www.redyre.com/the-recall-game/

http://www.redyre.com/why-your-puppy-needs-a-toybox/

Finally, find a training class in your area that uses positive reward based training methods, and begin attending as soon as it is safe to do so with your puppy re: vaccination status.

Best of luck with your pup.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Quote:
My personal opinion after nearly 25 years with a strong tempered working breed is that violence begets violence. YES you can make a puppy shut down and stop displaying certain behaviors by scruffing, scolding, and other punishment based methods. However, IMO, this only makes the WARNINGS stop, and the behavior still lurks, and may surface in an even more severe fashion later. DANGEROUS WITH LARGE BREED DOGS FOR SURE.

I would NEVER EVER use any punishment based methods on any puppy this age, and only in older dogs to protect myself from an injury. I do not find it necessary.

JMO as always....

 

[dainerra]

I read this advice once on the alpha-roll school of thought. If you are going to do it, be prepared to lose. Any dog that will let you roll him doesn't need it and any dog that needs it won't let you do it.