Great Pyr Puppy Problem

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First, your puppy was acquired TOO YOUNG. She missed important lessons from her littermates about bite inhibition, and etc. This can't be undone now, but is something to keep in mind. I would advise you to do an internet search on BITE INHBITION and read up on why teaching this is so important with puppies. Look for an article by SHIRLEY CHONG. If you can't find it, PM me and I will dig it up for you.

Next, of course she wants to chew and bite everything, this is natural and normal for a puppy her age. I NEVER EVER use any negative reinforcement or punishment with puppies this age. NEVER. You need to deal with the issue by managing the puppy, using a crate, exercise pens, outdoor time, and positive reward based training.

Second, NO HITTING. EVER. This includes anything hitting or striking related. No "tapping", popping, bumping, whatsoever. This will get you the result you just experienced, and will teach your puppy that you are unpredictable and not to be trusted.

It can be helpful with puppies this age to let them drag a short leash when you are present so you have a handle to get control of them.

It is VERY IMPORTANT at this age to work hard to catch your puppy doing something right, and reward them for it. Once you get started in this frame of mind and with this sort of training, it builds on itself. STOP focusing on the negative, and START focusing on the positive.

Manage your puppy's life so that she has little chance to do the wrong thing, using the above mentioned tools. Use LOTS of positive reward based training time to teach your puppy how to live to suit your expectations.

A few training articles that I have written that might be helpful to you:

http://www.redyre.com/the-recall-game/

http://www.redyre.com/why-your-puppy-needs-a-toybox/

Finally, find a training class in your area that uses positive reward based training methods, and begin attending as soon as it is safe to do so with your puppy re: vaccination status.

Best of luck with your pup.

I agree!
 
I acquired my best working dog at 6 weeks old (too young) because I didn't like the conditions she in which she was kept. She played with dogs and I taught her bite inhibition and everything worked out just fine. I'm not a big fan of clicker training because I like to be able to work dogs with voice and hands only because I always have those with me. Different strokes for different folks. Also there are different ways that are better with different breeds.
 
Clicker training is not about the clicker. the clicker is only a marker indicating to the dog that it just performed a behavior that is going to get him a reward. You can use your voice to NEARLY as good effect. In addition, the clicker is faded and replaced by other praise once a behavior is learned. It is used only during the teaching/shaping phase of training.

Anyone who has ever said "GOOD DOG" when a dog did something right is using the same training technique, just not the tool of a clicker.
 
Quote:
First, your puppy was acquired TOO YOUNG. She missed important lessons from her littermates about bite inhibition, and etc. This can't be undone now, but is something to keep in mind. I would advise you to do an internet search on BITE INHBITION and read up on why teaching this is so important with puppies. Look for an article by SHIRLEY CHONG. If you can't find it, PM me and I will dig it up for you.

Next, of course she wants to chew and bite everything, this is natural and normal for a puppy her age. I NEVER EVER use any negative reinforcement or punishment with puppies this age. NEVER. You need to deal with the issue by managing the puppy, using a crate, exercise pens, outdoor time, and positive reward based training.

Second, NO HITTING. EVER. This includes anything hitting or striking related. No "tapping", popping, bumping, whatsoever. This will get you the result you just experienced, and will teach your puppy that you are unpredictable and not to be trusted.

It can be helpful with puppies this age to let them drag a short leash when you are present so you have a handle to get control of them.

It is VERY IMPORTANT at this age to work hard to catch your puppy doing something right, and reward them for it. Once you get started in this frame of mind and with this sort of training, it builds on itself. STOP focusing on the negative, and START focusing on the positive.

Manage your puppy's life so that she has little chance to do the wrong thing, using the above mentioned tools. Use LOTS of positive reward based training time to teach your puppy how to live to suit your expectations.

A few training articles that I have written that might be helpful to you:

http://www.redyre.com/the-recall-game/

http://www.redyre.com/why-your-puppy-needs-a-toybox/

Finally, find a training class in your area that uses positive reward based training methods, and begin attending as soon as it is safe to do so with your puppy re: vaccination status.

Best of luck with your pup.

Agreed!!! Thank you!
 
I think there is a lot of great advice here, especially on warnings that violence often escalates violence. I'm not a fan of dominance theory, and have never met a dog who thought I was a weird wolf on two legs, and I wouldn't want to engage in that sort of relationship anyway. I don't want to have to urinate over spots my dog sprays, or to have a smile take on a different meaning. Much of that school of thought seems to be confusing providing structure and behavior modification with dominance. For instance, when you don't allow a dog to walk in front of you, this is mistaken to be an issue of dominance rather than merely teaching a dog to pay attention to you for cues and to listen to you in order to do something rewarding (go for a walk). In the wild, lower ranking wolves do break snow and walk out in the lead.
http://www.thewildphotographer.com/2011/01/gray-wolves-yellowstone-national-park.html
This does not increase their ranking. Another thing I often hear is don't allow dogs on furniture or they will think they are dominant. While you need to teach dogs structure and proper behavior (ie. get off the couch as soon as a command is given, move over or off for people, etc.), the thought that the alpha wolf is always on higher ground or sleeps alone in a comfy spot is not accurate. Unless the female is birthing and raising pups in a den, the pack sleeps together:
http://www.alaskawolves.org/Blog/AF9775CA-4845-4F0E-841C-A1447432C091.html
I also, for instance, find that many who are fans of dominance techniques breed their dogs. If you were truly a dominant wolf operating in a pack, though this does not always happen in the wild or captivity, you would often prevent lower ranking males and females from reproducing. I have seen plenty of dogs who are allowed to breed not then decide they are the main breeding pair, and in fact, have seen that having a good trust bond with female dogs helps decrease aggression around pups. Basically, the whole theory seems skewed and to be a misinterpretation of what usually is happening in human and dog interactions, and I have seen a lot of unpredictable aggression in dogs who have owners that constantly show them "who is boss". That said, some dogs do respond to different techniques better than others. Another ineffective but common attitude I see are those who say never discipline your dog, and who do not understand that dogs are very capable of modifying your behavior to suit themselves.

In your case, I would find someone experienced with the breed who has good success in training them. Sometimes finding breed specific advice can be very, very helpful. This was true with our cattle dog who we adopted as an adult. She would leap up and snap your arms when excited, to the point of bruising skin and ripping clothes. We never actually went with a trainer or behaviorist, because the ones we met did not seem to have any sort of understanding about our dog. General trainers insisted her jumping and nipping was dominance, even though our dog took training to get her to not submissively pee every time a voice was loud or someone was standing tall over her, and some even thought it was outright aggression. :eyeroll: Breed specific trainers weren't helpful as all we could find worked with border collies, and they insisted she was trying to herd us in a specific direction (mmhmm). Some suggested kneeing her in the chest, which did absolutely nothing (Again, cattle dog. Knee equals nothing). What we ended up doing was taking what we had read about the breed, reading up on specific cattle dog questions, sorting through the information that seemed relevant, and coming up with our own plan and theory. Theory: She jumped up and snapped when excited, and as she appeared to have very poor socialization and no training before ending up at a shelter, she probably did not learn bite inhibition. Plan: To get attention, she needed to sit and calm down. This was coupled with an off command, followed by a sit when she did jump up. She was also redirected towards toys inside and sticks outside. Result: She no longer jumps up, except about twice a year when she is really, really excited. She is now easy to redirect to appropriate behavior though, and when she has a very hard time controlling her urge to jump up and nip, she now runs to get a toy or a stick and is rewarded for that. What didn't help: Trying to dominate an already incredibly insecure dog.

I think reading and talking with people familiar with the breed, and using good sense will help you develop training strategies that work. There are usually real life groups and also online forums dedicated to certain breeds. The Nothing In Life is Free program (google it) is a good one to start off with because it reinforces structure right away, and you can start with it today, but is not something that risks bringing out aggression in your dog.
 
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very nice posts punk and redyre! 100% in agreence..
ive never met any animal who thinks im a 2 legged odd version of what it is, so trying to act like a wolf ect in my opinion is silly, dogs arnt stupid, they know your not a dog and respond much better to methods otether than "im the boss and ill SHOW you..."
i do feel basic methods of establishing hierarchy (working for food, you going through doors first, having them move out of your way) is perfectly fine, but beating, yelling, shaking, pnning ect...your not a wolf, dont try and act like one, because whn it comes down to it, your flesh is much softer and your teeth muhc shorter!
 
Every point I have has been fairly well covered by others- but I do have a question as to the purpose of this pup. If she is a working dog, is she in your house? At all? If she is bonding to you instead of your stock, you will have many problems later on getting her to perform her function. I did not kennel train my guardian pup. I did truck train him- loading, lying, staying, and unloading. Be wary of training classes beyond basic obedience. The hours you spend with her away from her job take away from that relationship and add to yours with her.
I would start working on fence boundary training NOW. Walk your fence line with her twice a day or more and have her check for compromised fence, predator indicators, and such. Point out these things to her now, and she will be a great asset to you and your herd.

This pup will soon become a 100+ lb pup who will try to get away with anything and everything. You must be firm and consistent, just like with children. Just because she's cute, doesn't mean she gets to walk all over you. No one likes a giant sized dog who doesn't mind his handler. It's a great way to never have company.

My Anatolian/Pyr is a year old and 125 lbs already. He did NOT bond properly with my stock, because some family that was staying with us put him in with their pet dogs and they were more fun than the goats. They thought I was being mean, not giving him other dogs to play with while I was at work. Don't let this happen to you. Keep her away from any pet dogs.
 
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Thanks Redyre. I really do understand the use of clickers. Most folks use them longer than they should and then you end up with a dog that isn't used to being touched. I know that may sound strange to you, but a lot of folks around here that use clickers end up relying on them and for some reason don't handle the dog enough because you generally don't touch them when you clicker train. In my agility classes I need to be able to put my hands on a dog. If I have a dog that is not comfortable with handling it makes for an awkward situation. I understand that this is not the correct result of clicker training, but, nevertheless, it seems very common in our area. Hence I'm not a clicker fan.

I prefer "yes" or the old "good dog" and then a touch or play of some kind where you are always interacting physically with the dog. That is the kind of relationship I prefer. I always have my voice and hands with me. I finding fading the clicker an extra unecessary step when using my voice.

Clicker training methods were developed by animal keepers for seals and other large mammals that needed training but could not be handled safely by the trainer. I enjoy handling my dogs and my dogs enjoy the interaction.

Sooner or later, in tracking, obedience, flyball, or agility - you are going to meet with a behavior that needs to be actively discouraged. I frequently have my dogs off leash around other dogs in training situations. While my dogs are exceptionally well trained, friendly, and socialized, sooner or later some kind of an issue will need to be actively discouraged. I have seen other dogs in these activities that have had positive reinforcement only and then they get the idea that they would rather jump out of the obedience ring to get their ball or run into the next ring at an agility trial to play with the other dog. I understand that these behaviors can be trained out of the dog using positive methods only, but have seen quite a few performances ruined by positively trained dogs.

I do not use "violence", but I do indeed correct my dogs. I don't beat my dogs or physically abuse them, but I will issue a sharp verbal and/or collar correction upon occasion. They are initially trained with only positive methods, but I believe to have a truly reliable dog, esp. off lead, there needs to be a consequence for undesirable behavior after the desirable behavior has been established. I have trained AmStaffs for over 20 years and trained 2 dogs that were the most performance titled in the breed for a long time. We had good, loving relationships and those dogs and my subsequent dogs would do most anything for me - not out of fear, but out of mutual understanding. I do not advocate "violence" upon dogs, and sometimes it seems that you may be belittling and perhaps being a bit judgemental about the entire community of dog trainers that do not use clicker training methods.

Dogs do correct other dogs, and dogs do understand corrections and take them in stride as a natural thing. How do you think they learn bite inhibition in the litter? Yes, pups scream when bitten too hard, but pups will also correct other pups. The dam will correct her pups. Just because you correct a dog doesn't mean it will be fearful of you or that you are brutalizing the dog or that you will damage your relationship with the dog. Dogs understand a fair correction.

Also, once the dog understands a positive verbal cue like "yes!" or even a smile, I find that to be an extremely effective reward when well timed. People have trained dogs for hundreds, if not thousands, of years without clickers, and man's relationship with dogs doesn't seem to have really suffered for the lack of it.
 
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Just adding in that in controlled laboratory studies, it has been shown that mammals such as rats learn best when rewards for desired behavior are mixed with corrections for undesired behavior. Another study shows that lab rats respond best when a treat or reward is not given consistently once the behavior is learned. This was more to study gambling addiction in humans, but I believe it is very useful for animal training as well. I can't link to articles right now, but will add them in at a later time. I do meet people who never use corrections of any kind with dogs who either do not consistently respond to commands and dogs who are sometimes even a bit confused with what to do because they are not sure what they are doing that is not desired. I use verbal corrections and redirection, because I also see people who tell their dog they are doing something that is not desired, but then forget to model desired behavior. I do think it is important to strike a balance for the individual dog. I've seen some dogs who are so timid that just a raised "no" or "bad" makes them shut down. Definitely positive methods only for a dog like that until you can build confidence. On the other side, there is a popular dog training site that I see linked to often (dominance theory), and the person who runs it 'corrected' his dog by whamming it over the head with a shovel repeatedly. Unless I am incorrect, that is animal abuse, and risks both death to the dog or a more aggressive dog by causing damage to areas of the brain that control behavior or aggression. So I guess I'm just saying, balance in all things, and don't let oneself get caught up in dogma....which is hard because it is very prevalent in advice on how to train animals.
 

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