Health insurance rant.

[PineappleMama]

Yup, CM... like I said it's all gambling... and everyone knows the House always wins.

For those discussing the low deduct vs high deduct... would you mind sharing the premium prices?

Last quote we had was $4800 per year in premiums plus, I think, a $5000 family deductible.. may have been $10k.
So, we'd have to shell out a total of $9800.00 before we'd get ANYTHING back for our money.
(note DH works for a small business, they don't get the same 'deals' as large companies, EVERY person's bad health effects everyone else's premiums... but DH being healthy as a horse doesn't help the others at all)

But with the lower deductible isn't the premium higher? Sounds like raising the interest rate to balance the lowered price on a used car to me. But I can't actually calculate 'cuz I don't have sample numbers... so, anyone with a super low deductible want to share so we can see actuals? I mean... if the deductible is $250/person, for us that'd be $1000 but the monthly premium is raised up to $735 then it would still amount to $9800 paid before you get doodly. But I don't know if the monthly would actually be that high?

Irks me that you pay near $5k to not get sick... then another $5k if you do, before you EVER get any return on your original $5k investment in your health...

That one time I got sick... if I'd had insurance....
$4800 in premiums + $25 copay at office + $50 worth of scrips = $4875.00

Without insurance at CareNow
$0 premiums + $90 visit fee + $210 tests, shots, etc + $50 scripts = $350.00

And, no waiting three weeks - three months to see the doctor to boot, online check in is awesome.

For us, not having insurance is the blatantly better way... we can get care when needed, but we don't pay for care we don't get every single day. The fear of catastrophe is there, but even if we gave that 17% of our income we'd still then have to put out another 17% to reach the deductible, and THEN they MIGHT cover our care... or 90% of it anyways... meanwhile we'd be trying to pay the bills and have food on only 66% of our, already poverty level but not low enough to get any aid, income.

I fear that there are quite a few folks in the same boat... but not one of them is a politician.

 

[cmjust0]

Those of you without insurance...if you find yourself in that worst case scenario situation where you're suddenly faced with thousands and thousands of dollars worth of medical bills, do yourself a favor and NEGOTIATE.

You've already had the service...the hospital and service providers are basically hosed if you don't pay, yet they WILL have the gall to try and charge you the 'rack rate' because you didn't have any access to discounts (insurance).

Demand those discounts.

If they'll do a $5,000 procedure for $800 for people who have insurance, there's no reason why they shouldn't be willing to take $800 from you, too. Most times, they will. In many cases, they even offer some kind of payment plan system.


I actually have a credit card for my local hospital.. Yeah -- a credit card. Interest rate's 8%, but if I pay with the card, it's an automatic **25% discount** right off the bat. And that's after the insurance pays..

Point being, most hospitals know full-well that they have TONS of room to wiggle around on bills. If you pay it, fine, but I'm actually of the opinion that they mostly don't expect folks will...so the higher they can make that bill look, the better, because I'm *sure* they get to write it all off as a loss.. Why only write off the $1,000 you'd have collected from an insured patient when you can write off $10,000?!?

Again...it's a rip-off. But if you don't have insurance, I feel like everyone should at least know exactly how the rip-off works so they can exploit it to their advantage.

 

[geckobass5]

FINE , if you want medicare?aid have it. We pay a lot for bcbs through my wifes job and at the moment I pay 110$ extra to medicare for part b. That medicare only covers the last 20% of the bill and since im hitting catestrophic again it will soon cover nothing so I'm dropping it.
As for me the only thing keeping me alive is bcbs and my drs. The govt healt insurance stinks in comparison.

I worked for the federal govt till I became medically unable. Please believe me ehen i say the govenment is allways self serving. this plan will not workas promised, it will not be more efficient, it will not save you money unless you consider rationed health care a bargain.

Right now we effectively have rationing because some people are not or cannot pay for health insurance/ care.
With this plan we will have rationing because a govt stooge will tell a dr provide care for xx$ a year.

What will happen is research will come to a halt, new drugs and therapies will never come into use, WHY?

There is no money in it. Without the financial incentive no company is going to invest its stockholders monies into a project that the govt wont pay for (or as things are going the president might order it to be given away)


Nothing in this life is free, if its given away it was probably worthless. Except for love that is.

Comon folks, you cant expect the govt to just keep giving things away, there is no cosmic santa claus out there.

If you havnt realized it yet WE ARE BROKE.

We spent and spent and spent, from the war on poverty through vietnam, medicare, medicaid, the free prescription drug program, the gulf war x2, the war on terror, to big to fail. endless extensions of unemployment. The money we spend now is Chinas. You are spending our childrens future.
I have the solution, you will work the job the government will give you, it will be fair based on a government apptitude test and the countries needs. Oh also taking racial and sexual quotas in effect. Toally fair. the govt will collect your pay but provide a home, medical care, and food. Again totally fair and above board. We can even have all meetings and dealmaking on cspan to make it the most transparent govt yet. Time for change! Cradle to grave govt care. If you ask im sure that your request will find a sympathetic ear. Just ask...

 

[geckobass5]

Im not saying to stop anything cold turkey, especially to those who have been contributing members of society. We do need to show restraint and push away from the table cause we are obese and the bill is coming.

think about the future we will give to our kids.

 

[PineappleMama]

This may sound familiar, but so many have forgotten it... where we came from... and what this country was founded on...

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

-Thomas Jefferson

If you want to change things, remember your anger come November. If you continue to vote a straight ticket because that's what you've always done, that's what your Daddy did, or don't vote at all, then don't gripe when things don't turn out the way you want.

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty

Smart fella that Jefferson... a few more words of his...

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.

I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first

Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.*

Power is not alluring to pure minds.

Most bad government has grown out of too much government.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

Everyone talks about the future, but I think perhaps we might be wise to look to our past else we may not have one.

*Some say this one is TJ, others say it belongs to Ford, either way a good quote.

 

[TwilightMom]

Quote:
I like your ideas. It would also not be tied into your job. You could keep the same coverage no matter where you worked.

 

[PineappleMama]

It is doable... but for folks to be able to choose their doctor, choose their hospital, choose to have other coverage... well that'd take the control out of the government's hands... and they just won't allow that.

We have strayed so far from this country's roots as to be unidentifiable to ourselves.

Even if we start with just this one issue, it would be a start to returning to what we were.

 

[BlackBart]

If I understand correctly.
You buy a health insurance policy and pay premiums every month. The premiums are high because the "payouts/risks" are high.
If there is a health problem you have to pay a deductable and this deductable is set by the insurance company.
Some insurance plans cover more, some less.
Is that right?

Can you use your medical bills as a deduction on your personal income tax?

I think because a health plan should not be seen as a profit making industry they should change the wording from Insurance to Assurance. You are assured basic medical care.
There has been some talk of changing the access to medical services here, a example: People should get X amount of free visits a year then a user fee should be put into place. That would cut down on non-life threatening run of the mill runny nose doctor vists.

My Sister-in-law and her Brother are Doctors in Germany. She briefly explained their health care system. Everybody pays a national healthcare fee. The fee is determined on your income. When medical services are needed, everything is paid for.
The wealthy pay for the poor so to speak. Nobody jumps the Que but if you feel you are not cared for in a timely manner and you have the money you can pay for the procedure yourself or pay a private facility.

In Canada if you are over 65 you don't pay healthcare premiums, whether you are filthy rich or not. Everybody over a certain income pays the same flat rate. Allot of people don't think that is right. Veterans (or their surviving spouses) under a certain income also recieve $1200 (each service) a year for Housecleaning and yard maintenance.

If your yearly total of prescriptions costs are over a certain amount then you don't pay once you reach that cap. I would say that one fourth (? maybe higher) of the population has some extra form of medical coverage (and extended medical) thru their employer and most plans pay 80% of prescription costs. Some plans you only pay the dispense fee. If the amount of prescriptions paid out (not by a plan) reaches a certain limit then they can be used as a deduction on your income tax. Wheelchairs, lifts etc. and any improvements made to the house for medical reasons can be used as a tax deduction. Either patrial or full amount, depends.

The company where my husband works, pays the BC Medical plan fee, (around $100 a month for two) extended health (approx $100 a month for two) and Vision care which is $10 per month. He pays $20 per paycheck for long term disabilty (disabling long term health issues pays 66% of your annual income) and dental. Dental coverage is $1000 per year per person, after that amount we pay full cost.

Extended Medical covers Chiros, Massage, travel insurance, wheelchairs and equipment, prosthetics etc..

We have the right to choose our doctors and to a ceratin extent where we are treated. But in my city there are two major hospitals. Each Hospital specializes in certain procedures but all Doctors can work in both. One is known for being a top notch heart facility, so that is where I would be sent if I needed a heart operation.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Well...all I can say is that 'govt health insurance' (Medicare) has done a fine job of keeping my FIL alive.. He recently had a porcine valve replacement, had his thumb joint ground down and replace with a ball-bearing because of arthritis, etc etc -- all under Medicare.

I know lots of folks -- some of whom RAIL against "govt health insurance" -- who seem happier with their medicare than I am with my current private insurance situation.

I worked for the federal govt till I became medically unable. Please believe me ehen i say the govenment is allways self serving. this plan will not workas promised, it will not be more efficient, it will not save you money unless you consider rationed health care a bargain.

Right now we effectively have rationing because some people are not or cannot pay for health insurance/ care.
With this plan we will have rationing because a govt stooge will tell a dr provide care for xx$ a year.

A govt stooge vs. an insurance company stooge...sorry, but I don't see much difference. Right now, insurance companies dictate to healthcare providers what the "allowable amounts" will be for certain products, services, and procedures..

Frankly, I think I'd rather have a 'govt stooge' do it than a private insurance company stooge, because at least the government stooge is, at some level, accountable to voters and taxpayers.

What will happen is research will come to a halt, new drugs and therapies will never come into use, WHY? There is no money in it.

Well, considering the fact that insurance companies already do what it is you're saying the government is going to do by stepping in and telling medical professionals what they can and can't charge for certain products and services, I guess I'd have to disagree with you..

If what you say is going to happen were actually going to happen, it would already have happened...but it didn't.

And it won't.

Without the financial incentive no company is going to invest its stockholders monies into a project that the govt wont pay for (or as things are going the president might order it to be given away)

You seem to have a misunderstanding of what we're talking about trying in this country... We're talking about national health insurance -- not socialized medicine. I know that the terminology is bad right now (ie., "healthcare reform" and "national healthcare", etc.), but the reality is that 100% of the reform effort focuses on health insurance because that's where the problem is in this country right now.

Nothing in this life is free, if its given away it was probably worthless. Except for love that is.

Comon folks, you cant expect the govt to just keep giving things away, there is no cosmic santa claus out there.

If you havnt realized it yet WE ARE BROKE.

How is the government "giving things away" if they offer a health insurance policy, a la medicare/medicaid, on a FOR-PAY basis? Sorry, but that's not giving anything away -- that's taking something BACK that's currently being given away to private insurance companies in the form of the trillions of dollars worth of premiums paid by healthy people with money.

See, insurance companies get ALL that money, and when those people are no longer healthy and/or no longer have any money, they get kicked off to medicare/medicaid and we have to foot the bill.

Do you see how that works? Think about it, seriously...they collect premiums for YEARS from healthy people with money who typically don't use much of their coverage, and when those people get sick and actually NEED the care for which they've been paying all these years, they get dropped...insurance company keeps the premium money, taxpayer foots bill for care.

Seriously...think. That's what's happening, and by being AGAINST national health insurance reform, you're only helping to keep that unfair, costly system in place.

Is that really what you want?

We spent and spent and spent, from the war on poverty through vietnam, medicare, medicaid, the free prescription drug program, the gulf war x2, the war on terror, to big to fail. endless extensions of unemployment. The money we spend now is Chinas. You are spending our childrens future.

I agree with all that....which is why I think it's high time the government give itself the ability to start collecting premiums from younger, healthier people with money instead of allowing private insurance companies to get them all and stick the taxpayer with all the sick and elderly.

I have the solution, you will work the job the government will give you, it will be fair based on a government apptitude test and the countries needs. Oh also taking racial and sexual quotas in effect. Toally fair. the govt will collect your pay but provide a home, medical care, and food. Again totally fair and above board. We can even have all meetings and dealmaking on cspan to make it the most transparent govt yet. Time for change! Cradle to grave govt care. If you ask im sure that your request will find a sympathetic ear. Just ask...

Read your quote, and then think about what I just said...then ask yourself how it's socialism if the government that's expected to clean up after the private health insurance companies, allowing them to keep all the profits while WE foot the bill for all their would-be losses, finally wises up and says "TO HECK WITH THIS" and gives itself permission to compete in the free market..

That's anything but communism...as a fed-up taxpayer and someone who knows quite well how the government's going broke -- through little schemes like this -- it looks to me like common sense, long overdue.​

 

[Blue]

As someone who currently only has a part-time job with no benefits, I understand a good health insurance rant. I've been carrying an individual policy for several years, and every year, the premium goes up, either classed as age-related or due to increasing health costs. It went from $118 to $204 dollars a month over a course of maybe 5 years, which I consider to be bull as I hardly ever even used my insurance. I'm feeling a bit better now as a cheaper policy that I applied for was approved, but I still don't see any logical reason for them to constantly raise the premium!