- Thread starter
- #41
- Oct 15, 2013
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Hi
Firstly I commend you for opening your hen up and taking photos and trying to get to the bottom of why she died.
I agree with the consensus of opinion. Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic syndrome. I have not seen a liver in quite such a bad condition, both colour and texture. The black will most likely be congealed blood from a huge haemorrhage of the liver which would cause sudden death. That also explains the heart looking pale and as you are aware, the huge amount of fat throughout the abdominal cavity and surrounding the organs is extremely unhealthy in itself.
That fat, both as the thick yellow deposits and also the infiltration of fat molecules throughout the liver causing the orange colour is as a result of a diet too high in carbohydrates and not enough exercise.
Just to be clear, can you post a photo of the feed you use and how you provide it to the hens?
As @KikisGirls has explained, a whole grain feed allows the birds to pick out their favourite bits and they will almost always go for the high carbohydrate option over the healthier pulses that provide protein. A processed homogenous pellet or crumble may contain all the same ingredients but the chickens eat a balanced diet because they cannot pick and choose. It also means they get all the vitamins and essential amino acids which are usually in the powdery fines in a less processed grain feed and often that gets billed out and wasted on the ground. If you do feed a whole grain feed, it needs to be limited rather than fed ad lib so that they clear up all the less favoured components after they have picked out the "best bits". I am told that fermenting such feeds and giving them a ration twice a day in a pan, can prevent these Fatty Liver Problems, but to me it is safer to give them a pelleted feed. You will also find that there is almost no waste with pellets thereby reducing the risk of rodents coming to "clean up" overnight.
These less processed grain feeds are also more of a health risk to larger Heritage breeds that are kept penned. If they have a limited supply and free range to burn off the extra carbs, you may get away with it. Smaller, flightier birds will burn the surplus calories off better.
So many people have experienced deaths in their flock from Fatty Liver like this, due to these feeds I do wonder if it warrants a sticky somewhere to alert people to the dangers. I know there are proponents of less processed feeds like this and I understand why but it is really important that people know how to use them ie rationed and scattered on the ground or fermented and fed from a pan. Calculating how much that ration needs to be is not as easy as just hanging a feeder of pellets and letting the hens eat as much as they want. The protein/carb balance in the pellet will fill the bird up and prevent over eating.
The fatty deposits that are likely inside your other birds are also likely to cause reproductive disorders like prolapse, salpingitis (look out for lash eggs) and internal laying as the fat can cause misalignment of the ovary and oviduct and result in ripe yolks dropping into the abdominal cavity instead of travelling the normal route down the oviduct, as may have started to happen with this bird. You may see cases of ascites(water belly) too. I would do a weekly check of vents and abdomens for soiling and bloat/swelling. Soiled vents usually indicate that there is abdominal swelling. Fly strike is also more likely, so keep an eye out for that. Checking them whilst they roost at night is by far the easiest way, by cupping your hand between their legs as they stand on the roost bar. Also look out for birds walking with a wide stance and as I mentioned previously, poopy butts.
The problem with liver damage is that you don't see any noticeable symptoms until it is beyond reversible. That said, I believe that vitamin B complex can be beneficial in supporting the liver, so that might be something to try.
I wish you luck with your remaining birds. There is a genetic element to Fatty Liver, so it could be that this bird was more predisposed to it or it could be that she was higher on the pecking order and got first dibs at the "best bits" of the feed and lower pecking order birds were left to clear up the higher protein components.
Thank you for such a thoughtful post. I will look at the feed composition and I will look to soy free alternatives as well. we use our eggs in our Kitchen for clients reversing health issues and i do not want soy as an ingredient.The irony of helping people with health issues and ending up with fatty liver chickens is bizarre. The girls do get a good amount of organic greens that we trim for our clients meals twice a week. The girls have about 2 acres they roam freely in from 5:30 am till they roost so the exercise part is ok. I do however put their feed into two large bins with head holes since they were putting most of the feed all over the coop floor with the standard feeders, which solved the waste problem but it may be overfeeding them because they are large and hold a good amount of feed and i keep them full. I have seen messy vents and picked them up and soaked their bottoms to pull it off, it seems to be like concrete and have had to cut the feathers off some. I will look for water belly and research lash eggs, ive never heard of it. thanks again.