Healthy hen drops dead. Autopsy pics. **graphic**

[theladieskeeper]

Hi
Firstly I commend you for opening your hen up and taking photos and trying to get to the bottom of why she died.
I agree with the consensus of opinion. Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic syndrome. I have not seen a liver in quite such a bad condition, both colour and texture. The black will most likely be congealed blood from a huge haemorrhage of the liver which would cause sudden death. That also explains the heart looking pale and as you are aware, the huge amount of fat throughout the abdominal cavity and surrounding the organs is extremely unhealthy in itself.

That fat, both as the thick yellow deposits and also the infiltration of fat molecules throughout the liver causing the orange colour is as a result of a diet too high in carbohydrates and not enough exercise.

Just to be clear, can you post a photo of the feed you use and how you provide it to the hens?

As @KikisGirls has explained, a whole grain feed allows the birds to pick out their favourite bits and they will almost always go for the high carbohydrate option over the healthier pulses that provide protein. A processed homogenous pellet or crumble may contain all the same ingredients but the chickens eat a balanced diet because they cannot pick and choose. It also means they get all the vitamins and essential amino acids which are usually in the powdery fines in a less processed grain feed and often that gets billed out and wasted on the ground. If you do feed a whole grain feed, it needs to be limited rather than fed ad lib so that they clear up all the less favoured components after they have picked out the "best bits". I am told that fermenting such feeds and giving them a ration twice a day in a pan, can prevent these Fatty Liver Problems, but to me it is safer to give them a pelleted feed. You will also find that there is almost no waste with pellets thereby reducing the risk of rodents coming to "clean up" overnight.
These less processed grain feeds are also more of a health risk to larger Heritage breeds that are kept penned. If they have a limited supply and free range to burn off the extra carbs, you may get away with it. Smaller, flightier birds will burn the surplus calories off better.

So many people have experienced deaths in their flock from Fatty Liver like this, due to these feeds I do wonder if it warrants a sticky somewhere to alert people to the dangers. I know there are proponents of less processed feeds like this and I understand why but it is really important that people know how to use them ie rationed and scattered on the ground or fermented and fed from a pan. Calculating how much that ration needs to be is not as easy as just hanging a feeder of pellets and letting the hens eat as much as they want. The protein/carb balance in the pellet will fill the bird up and prevent over eating.

The fatty deposits that are likely inside your other birds are also likely to cause reproductive disorders like prolapse, salpingitis (look out for lash eggs) and internal laying as the fat can cause misalignment of the ovary and oviduct and result in ripe yolks dropping into the abdominal cavity instead of travelling the normal route down the oviduct, as may have started to happen with this bird. You may see cases of ascites(water belly) too. I would do a weekly check of vents and abdomens for soiling and bloat/swelling. Soiled vents usually indicate that there is abdominal swelling. Fly strike is also more likely, so keep an eye out for that. Checking them whilst they roost at night is by far the easiest way, by cupping your hand between their legs as they stand on the roost bar. Also look out for birds walking with a wide stance and as I mentioned previously, poopy butts.

The problem with liver damage is that you don't see any noticeable symptoms until it is beyond reversible. That said, I believe that vitamin B complex can be beneficial in supporting the liver, so that might be something to try.

I wish you luck with your remaining birds. There is a genetic element to Fatty Liver, so it could be that this bird was more predisposed to it or it could be that she was higher on the pecking order and got first dibs at the "best bits" of the feed and lower pecking order birds were left to clear up the higher protein components.

Thank you for such a thoughtful post. I will look at the feed composition and I will look to soy free alternatives as well. we use our eggs in our Kitchen for clients reversing health issues and i do not want soy as an ingredient.The irony of helping people with health issues and ending up with fatty liver chickens is bizarre. The girls do get a good amount of organic greens that we trim for our clients meals twice a week. The girls have about 2 acres they roam freely in from 5:30 am till they roost so the exercise part is ok. I do however put their feed into two large bins with head holes since they were putting most of the feed all over the coop floor with the standard feeders, which solved the waste problem but it may be overfeeding them because they are large and hold a good amount of feed and i keep them full. I have seen messy vents and picked them up and soaked their bottoms to pull it off, it seems to be like concrete and have had to cut the feathers off some. I will look for water belly and research lash eggs, ive never heard of it. thanks again.

 

[theladieskeeper]

Me too!! I have several hens that delight in turning my crystal clear water pans into things that look worse than that- they love dragging the watermelon skins left from the day before- some will stand, soak -- and inevitably poop in the water.... but … ours also have sealed 5 gallon buckets with lids and poultry cups, so the pans are there as accessory items. Of course … any time I dump a waterer or empty out the big one, they all rush to drink it off the ground as it drains away!

Yep! sounds like chickens, then add 4 ducks that drink with a mouthful of feed so that half of it ends up in the water and starts to ferment. we had to go to closed nipple and cup waterers for the chickens because the ducks make such a mess of their waters. all water is cleaned everyday. Its also a black rubber heavy livestock pan so they cant stand on the sides and tip it over... Thanks for posting!

 

[theladieskeeper]

In fatty liver hemorrhagic disease, the liver may appear tan or putty colored. There also can be evidence of hemorrhage which could be the bloody colored blob. The black thing looks like the gallbladder which normally is next to the liver.

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...f-fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry

http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/fatty-liver-syndrome

great article thanks! the color of her liver would state a severe case. No more corn scratch for these girls!

 

[theladieskeeper]

It's not so much them over eating...they will fill up on the not so good parts of the feed before they eat the good parts...if that even makes sense.
Just don't give them that option and you should be ok.
I am not sure how many other birds you have or how old they are and I doubt that whats done is done is reversible but you can help prevent adding more fat to their bodies.

Makes total sense! even us humans would prefer to eat the yummy stuff. And i used corn scratch as a training tool to get them to scratch were i needed bug patrol. looks like the girls will be going on cleanse diet

 

[Kiki]

I can help you find a soy free feed...but the problem I for see is it may not be local to you. Is mail order going to be a problem?
It's really best to go to your local stores to see what they carry and perhaps ask them if they can start ordering a certain one for you with their shipment.
I have a spreadsheet with hundreds of feeds that you can use to compare feeds...it's listed below in my signature.

 

[Shezadandy]

Makes total sense! even us humans would prefer to eat the yummy stuff. And i used corn scratch as a training tool to get them to scratch were i needed bug patrol. looks like the girls will be going on cleanse diet

Another thought -- If the composition of the feed is OK and the problem is truly their picking out the goodies --- maybe you can get your feed supplier (I think you said it's an Amish mill) to grind things down to a consistency where they can't pick and choose and consume it more like the standard crumble or pellet.

 

[coach723]

Finally caught up on this thread this morning....
@theladieskeeper wanted to say, very sorry for your loss, but thank you for the pictures. It's always good to learn (for all of us), and hopefully threads like yours will help encourage others to attempt necropsies to learn answers that can be so valuable to the flock going forward.
And @KikisGirls I'd missed your feed chart, well done!

 

[Kiki]

Finally caught up on this thread this morning....
@theladieskeeper wanted to say, very sorry for your loss, but thank you for the pictures. It's always good to learn (for all of us), and hopefully threads like yours will help encourage others to attempt necropsies to learn answers that can be so valuable to the flock going forward.
And @KikisGirls I'd missed your feed chart, well done!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1upDVFXEQPK8PUIF6Sj3Bt5CUQfX1PlTEhg799sDT-qM/edit?usp=sharing

 

[MontanaChickDoc]

Sorry, late to the game. I agree, severe hepatic lipidosis and the liver fractured (it becomes very friable when it's that fatty) and the hen bled out - that explains the roughened area on the bottom of the liver, and the huge blood clot in the abdomen. The color of the fat - that bright neon yellow - also is consistent with fatty liver disease and icterus from liver failure. If you peel back her eyelids and look at the conjunctiva, is it also yellow? Her skin may be tinged dark yellow, too. Sadly, a lot of birds are like me - too willing to each too much good food. Some of it is genetic predisposition, breed, etc. I think the number of yolks is normal for an active high production layer like a BR. But that globby looking yellow stuff is probably necrotic fat - does it feel "soapy" (soap is basically just fat with stuff added to it) ? The more liquid yellow is probably a yolk that was nicked when you opened the abdomen.
FWIW, I don't feed my chickens free choice with access to food all the time; I do some feed limitation to encourage them to forage more and get exercise. I think they are probably hungry a lot of the time...But don't beat yourself up - it sounds like you have a great set up, just greedy birds and too much good stuff to eat! And you are helping other people, too, by sharing your experiences. Great pics by the way.

 

[theladieskeeper]

Sorry, late to the game. I agree, severe hepatic lipidosis and the liver fractured (it becomes very friable when it's that fatty) and the hen bled out - that explains the roughened area on the bottom of the liver, and the huge blood clot in the abdomen. The color of the fat - that bright neon yellow - also is consistent with fatty liver disease and icterus from liver failure. If you peel back her eyelids and look at the conjunctiva, is it also yellow? Her skin may be tinged dark yellow, too. Sadly, a lot of birds are like me - too willing to each too much good food. Some of it is genetic predisposition, breed, etc. I think the number of yolks is normal for an active high production layer like a BR. But that globby looking yellow stuff is probably necrotic fat - does it feel "soapy" (soap is basically just fat with stuff added to it) ? The more liquid yellow is probably a yolk that was nicked when you opened the abdomen.
FWIW, I don't feed my chickens free choice with access to food all the time; I do some feed limitation to encourage them to forage more and get exercise. I think they are probably hungry a lot of the time...But don't beat yourself up - it sounds like you have a great set up, just greedy birds and too much good stuff to eat! And you are helping other people, too, by sharing your experiences. Great pics by the way.

Thank You! hopefully i won't have to do a necropsy again, but i have looked up how to do one properly and will look at eyes and skin color as well. hopefully rationing and some supplements can extend the life of the other girls.