Heat lamps, Amprolium, and sad baby chicks, oh my!

[spuddenly]

Regarding other things you've mentioned, switching to a brooder plate was a great move. I tried those red heat lamp bulbs once and found them way too intense for my smaller setup/hatches - it resulted in a lot of pasty butt. I now stick to either heating pads/plates or much lower watt reptile ceramic heat bulbs. I've raised 3 hatches of 20 chicks in the past year and have only lost 1 chick (mail order failure to thrive, wouldn't drink/eat on its own despite me feeding it electrolyte water from a dropper for days). It sounds like you're learning on the go and adjusting to what's best for your setup/chicks and that's great. Keep your head up!

Please feel free to reach out to me if I'm reasonably close to you and can help out at all, I have a ton of extra chick supplies/gear from having gotten way too much into baby chicks in the past few years and would be more than happy to help.

 

[WakaFlockaChickens]

What does their poop look like today?

Did you happen to have a thermometer in your brooder for the days you were using a heat lamp?

Can you take a picture of your brooder setup the way it is right now?
Do you have a thermometer?

Poop looks pretty good today. There have been a few soft serve brown poops here and there but nothing that looks like blood. An example of this poop is in a picture below.

I was using a handheld infrared thermometer to check temps. The far end away from the lamp was in the low to mid 70s F, directly under the lamp could hit some pretty hot temps (105F), but that was only in one small spot. The rest ranged from 85-95 and they hung out in those areas.

I currently have them in a large cardboard box lined with paper towels and compressed wood pellets over the top. The pellets turn to sawdust when wet, and seem to do a good job of keeping things dry. I know most people use pine shavings and I can switch to those if you think that's preferable. From my research, the pellets are safe so long as they are untreated, and these are. Please don't judge my box too hard - I'm about to clean it out for the day so it's a mess! Also I do have a chick feeder similar to the waterer, but I gave them a plate of their food today so they could enjoy some extra scratching.

 

[WakaFlockaChickens]

Oh boy - that feed is from Baxter Barn. I know you've mentioned this place as reputable a couple times, but... from my experience there, it's... not great. The Google reviews are super mixed for that place as well.

I will add a disclaimer that I purchased 2 started pullets from them and not baby chicks, so it's possible their baby chicks are fine. But I had a terrible experience and was frankly shocked at the conditions their pullets are kept in. They had 30+ chickens crammed into sets of of ~9x9 spaces, almost zero lighting whatsoever, and gave me no chance to inspect the pullets before they rushed me off to a purchase. Like buying chickens is like buying cereal at the store. When I got home and had a chance to look closely at the pullets, it turned out they were CRAWLING with lice. Oh, and they were malnourished - thin, missing feathers, super pale skin (when they were both supposed to be a yellow-legged breed). I'd never seen chickens so deathly quiet or afraid to move/do normal chicken things like peck grass. It took me months to nurse them back to health and get rid of their lice infestation.

Baxter Barn made me buy a bag of their chick starter with the purchase of the pullets and I tossed it/gave it away as soon as I could. I'm sorry, but I just have 0 trust for a place that would keep chickens in those conditions. I stick to NatureWise for feed for the most part and it's never let me down. I do have an extra bag of NatureWise medicated chick feed from my February hatch that I'm happy to share with you if you're in the King County area. I also have some extra Sav-a-Chick electrolytes or vitamins that I'd be happy to give away, as my chicks no longer need them.

Oh gosh, I didn't realize it was so bad. I had only heard good things, but admit that I didn't read Google reviews.

Well, schucks. I guess it is good to know that I'm probably not starting with the healthiest chicks and that raising baby chicks in a more normal situation perhaps wouldn't be so awful. I admit this has been horrible, and I'm not a wimpy gal. My family bred and raised puppies ethically with our own pet dogs and I've seen nature do some rough stuff to poor sweet babes. I've felt absolutely insane these last two weeks because I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Sounds like it might not really be me after all.

Tears. A lot of tears over here.

 

[spuddenly]

I switched from pine shavings to pine pellets after my first batch and have been a huge fan. It's slightly less dusty and IMO stays cleaner for longer. I've raised more than half my chicks on pine pellets sold for horses and they're doing just fine! I also use a thin layer of Sweet PDZ (turns out horse bedding is generally great for chicks too) below the pine pellets to help with smell/odor control, and the chicks seem to enjoy digging down to it and dust bathing in that haha.

 

[spuddenly]

Oh gosh, I didn't realize it was so bad. I had only heard good things, but admit that I didn't read Google reviews.

Well, schucks. I guess it is good to know that I'm probably not starting with the healthiest chicks and that raising baby chicks in a more normal situation perhaps wouldn't be so awful. I admit this has been horrible, and I'm not a wimpy gal. My family bred and raised puppies ethically with our own pet dogs and I've seen nature do some rough stuff to poor sweet babes. I've felt absolutely insane these last two weeks because I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Sounds like it might not really be me after all.

Tears. A lot of tears over here.

Awww I definitely remember being super anxious and stressing over my first batch of baby chicks. If it helps, it DOES get better and way easier once you have a setup that you know works for you and your chicks. It's almost too easy for me now, to the point where I only have to check in on my chicks once a day or so once they're past the 2 week stage and I probably don't get as much facetime with them as I should.

The chicks themselves are probably fine (in general most heritage/sexlink breeds are fairly hearty) but Baxter Barn definitely did not set you up for success by selling you unmedicated feed and just sending you off with a bottle of Corid. I've found that 90% of chickens is just having the right setup to make your life easier. The rest of the 10% is just experience, e.g. knowing what regular everyday chick peeping sounds like vs. actual alarm/shrill "something is wrong" peeping (usually they're too hot, too cold, too lonely, being bullied by another chick, whatever). Here's a couple disorganized tips from me in no particular order:

• Hatch size
  • I've found 4-6 chicks (max of 8) is my personal preferred size for chick batches. It's small enough that I can usually still easily tell each chick apart individually and not lose track of chicks during one-by-one inspections.
  • I note this because most of my experience and recommendations are with that smaller size in mind, and may not scale up to farm or industrial hatch sizes.
• Brooder setup
  • There's absolutely nothing wrong with a cardboard box, but if you want an upgrade that's incredibly practical and easy to store, check out a puppy playpen. I swear by them now because they check so many boxes: zippable top so chicks can't just fly straight out of the brooder, super easy (with 2 people) to grab the entire thing and dump 2 weeks worth of bedding into the outdoor compost with little mess, and SUPER easy to just spray clean and fold up for storage once the chicks are fully out.
  • If possible, I recommend putting your brooder on the top of a table. I've noticed a significant decrease in screaming when the chicks are at my waist level and I'm reaching in to do stuff (clean things, replace food/water, etc.). The chicks are also generally much friendlier and willing to hop on my arms when I'm not towering above them.
• Heating setup
  • Like I mentioned above, I avoid red heat lamps and instead use a 60W reptile ceramic heat lamp. I've found that this can be left just 10" or so above chicks and they're pretty happy with that (or can move away from it easily) for the entire duration that they need heating (~4 weeks, and then I take it away - past 2 weeks, chicks will surprise you with how cold-hardy they can be - it's huge temperature changes/shocks that are a problem). This has worked so well for me I haven't needed to buy a brooder plate, but would definitely do so if I ever needed to.
  • I've generally found with gentler heat setups that you'll much more rarely have issues with pasty butt. I check their butts once a day the first week or so and after that go down to inspecting them once a week.
• Weekly milestones
  • The first 2 weeks are the most stressful weeks in terms of chicks being most fragile/likely to die during this period (whether due to pasty butt, cocci, or failure to thrive). The first day is also the most sensitive in terms of temperatures, I've read that you should make sure the water you give them is warm to keep their body temperatures up (probably more important for mail-order chicks than feed-store-bought).
  • I always put a pinch of rooster booster (or whatever other brand of vitamins/electrolytes you have) in their water during the first week or two, along with feeding medicated feed. I've never had a single death due to coccidiosis, knock on wood.
  • Once you're past that, you can kind of mentally breathe a sigh of relief. At the 2 week mark I kick my chicks out of my draft-free climate controlled spare room and into the draft-free unheated garage (still with a heating lamp/pad) for the sake of my sanity and dust levels in the house. I believe we can do this because the maritime PNW climate mostly doesn't drop below freezing, so I don't know if this would work for all states, but it definitely is convenient for us.
  • Heat lamp gets taken away at the ~4-5 week point to get them gradually used to colder temperatures.
  • Depending on weather/feathering levels, the chicks get to move out fully at the 6-8 week mark.
• Cleaning and feed/waterers
  • I remember with my first batch spending a ton of time trying to manually scoop their poop, keep their waterer and feeder clean, etc... and getting the right setup made about 75% of that go away.
  • Water was a big one for me - I was emptying and adding fresh water several times a day (chickens, being chickens, CONSTANTLY kick in bedding/poop into water trays and I didn't want them drinking poopy water). My life changed dramatically for the better once I bought a chick nipple waterer and started training them to use it from day one (just grab each chick and bring their beak to the nipple so water comes in contact with their beak, once the smartest one figures it out they'll all know how). Because the first few days are the most fragile for chicks, I still give them tray water just in case a few are too dumb to figure it out, but I take it away after 3-5 days or so. I switch them to the red chicken nipple waterers at around the 4-5 week point.
  • For food, I still haven't got a perfect setup for this yet (I'm not sure one exists) and I still find myself digging bedding and poop out of their feeder on a daily basis. The first week or so I'll still use the mason jar with round openings type feeder you see everywhere, after that I get fed up with cleaning poop out of that constantly (and also sick of watching my wonderfully idiot chickens just fling food out of the feeder like the delinquents they are). I've tried RentACoop's port chick feeder and it's okay - it's great for not having to refill food frequently and it's good at not wasting feed, but it's so few ports that it's not great for larger batches of chicks, plus chicks can definitely still kick in tons of poop/bedding in with enough determination. Once the chickens get large enough I'm a bigger fan of their larger DIY feeder ports - those work much better and will fit onto most large plastic tupperware containers.
  • For poop, I've stopped fighting it and just learned to embrace poop in my life. I now just dump some Sweet PDZ over the wet cecal poops to help with the smell and call it a day. Chickens will stomp and kick around poop, it's what they do. I'll sometimes spread more pellets/bedding over their poop if I'm feeling energetic, otherwise I just fully replace the bedding in their pen once every 2 weeks. (As I mentioned before, I use a layer of Sweet PDZ and then 1-2" of pine pellets for bedding).
• Other misc thoughts
  • As others have noted here, there's no need to feed your chicks grit unless you're feeding them snacks or they're getting outdoor grass time. It's definitely possible for chicks at an early age to eat too much grit and give themselves crop issues (they're very dumb darlings and still figuring out what food is).
  • Personally, it's easier for me to not feed snacks (which shouldn't be more than 10% of their diet in any case, their normal feed is nutritionally complete) or take them on outside excursions until they're 6 weeks+ and big enough for adult chicken grit. This somewhat played into weather with my later batches as well, I had October and February hatches where it wasn't really logical to take them out in cold weather until they were older anyway.
  • I'm not sure if I put a whole lot of stock in the "get your chicks used to your soil" thing. I usually give the chicks 3 or so outside excursions before they go out permanently, but my last batch had 1 outside day (dang fickle PNW weather) before going out fully and have been doing just fine. Training them to go to the coop at night by themselves is my biggest hurdle usually once they go outside

Hope that wasn't too much all at once, or that some of it was useful (at least to someone out there). Feel free to reach out again with any questions!

 

[WakaFlockaChickens]

Awww I definitely remember being super anxious and stressing over my first batch of baby chicks. If it helps, it DOES get better and way easier once you have a setup that you know works for you and your chicks. It's almost too easy for me now, to the point where I only have to check in on my chicks once a day or so once they're past the 2 week stage and I probably don't get as much facetime with them as I should.

The chicks themselves are probably fine (in general most heritage/sexlink breeds are fairly hearty) but Baxter Barn definitely did not set you up for success by selling you unmedicated feed and just sending you off with a bottle of Corid. I've found that 90% of chickens is just having the right setup to make your life easier. The rest of the 10% is just experience, e.g. knowing what regular everyday chick peeping sounds like vs. actual alarm/shrill "something is wrong" peeping (usually they're too hot, too cold, too lonely, being bullied by another chick, whatever). Here's a couple disorganized tips from me in no particular order:

• Hatch size
  • I've found 4-6 chicks (max of 8) is my personal preferred size for chick batches. It's small enough that I can usually still easily tell each chick apart individually and not lose track of chicks during one-by-one inspections.
  • I note this because most of my experience and recommendations are with that smaller size in mind, and may not scale up to farm or industrial hatch sizes.
• Brooder setup
  • There's absolutely nothing wrong with a cardboard box, but if you want an upgrade that's incredibly practical and easy to store, check out a puppy playpen. I swear by them now because they check so many boxes: zippable top so chicks can't just fly straight out of the brooder, super easy (with 2 people) to grab the entire thing and dump 2 weeks worth of bedding into the outdoor compost with little mess, and SUPER easy to just spray clean and fold up for storage once the chicks are fully out.
  • If possible, I recommend putting your brooder on the top of a table. I've noticed a significant decrease in screaming when the chicks are at my waist level and I'm reaching in to do stuff (clean things, replace food/water, etc.). The chicks are also generally much friendlier and willing to hop on my arms when I'm not towering above them.
• Heating setup
  • Like I mentioned above, I avoid red heat lamps and instead use a 60W reptile ceramic heat lamp. I've found that this can be left just 10" or so above chicks and they're pretty happy with that (or can move away from it easily) for the entire duration that they need heating (~4 weeks, and then I take it away - past 2 weeks, chicks will surprise you with how cold-hardy they can be - it's huge temperature changes/shocks that are a problem). This has worked so well for me I haven't needed to buy a brooder plate, but would definitely do so if I ever needed to.
  • I've generally found with gentler heat setups that you'll much more rarely have issues with pasty butt. I check their butts once a day the first week or so and after that go down to inspecting them once a week.
• First 2 weeks
  • The first 2 weeks are the most stressful weeks in terms of chicks being most fragile/likely to die during this period (whether due to pasty butt, cocci, or failure to thrive). I always put a pinch of rooster booster (or whatever other brand of vitamins/electrolytes you have) in their water during the first week or two, along with feeding medicated feed. I've never had a single death due to coccidiosis, knock on wood.
  • Once you're past that, you can kind of mentally breathe a sigh of relief. At the 2 week mark I kick my chicks out of my draft-free climate controlled spare room and into the draft-free unheated garage (still with a heating lamp/pad) for the sake of my sanity and dust levels in the house. I believe we can do this because the maritime PNW climate mostly doesn't drop below freezing, so I don't know if this would work for all states, but it definitely is convenient for us.
  • Depending on weather/feathering levels, the chicks get to move out fully at the 6-8 week mark.
• Cleaning and feed/waterers
  • I remember with my first batch spending a ton of time trying to manually scoop their poop, keep their waterer and feeder clean, etc... and getting the right setup made about 75% of that go away.
  • Water was a big one for me - I was emptying and adding fresh water several times a day (chickens, being chickens, CONSTANTLY kick in bedding/poop into water trays and I didn't want them drinking poopy water). My life changed dramatically for the better once I bought a chick nipple waterer and started training them to use it from day one (just grab each chick and bring their beak to the nipple so water comes in contact with their beak, once the smartest one figures it out they'll all know how). Because the first few days are the most fragile for chicks, I still give them tray water just in case a few are too dumb to figure it out, but I take it away after 3-5 days or so. I switch them to the red chicken nipple waterers at around the 4-5 week point.
  • For food, I still haven't got a perfect setup for this yet (I'm not sure one exists) and I still find myself digging bedding and poop out of their feeder on a daily basis. The first week or so I'll still use the mason jar with round openings type feeder you see everywhere, after that I get fed up with cleaning poop out of that constantly (and also sick of watching my wonderfully idiot chickens just fling food out of the feeder like the delinquents they are). I've tried RentACoop's port chick feeder and it's okay - it's great for not having to refill food frequently and it's good at not wasting feed, but it's so few ports that it's not great for larger batches of chicks, plus chicks can definitely still kick in tons of poop/bedding in with enough determination. Once the chickens get large enough I'm a bigger fan of their larger DIY feeder ports - those work much better and will fit onto most large plastic tupperware containers.
  • For poop, I've stopped fighting it and just learned to embrace poop in my life. I now just dump some Sweet PDZ over the wet cecal poops to help with the smell and call it a day. Chickens will stomp and kick around poop, it's what they do. I'll sometimes spread more pellets/bedding over their poop if I'm feeling energetic, otherwise I just fully replace the bedding in their pen once every 2 weeks. (As I mentioned before, I use a layer of Sweet PDZ and then 1-2" of pine pellets for bedding).
• Other misc thoughts
  • As others have noted here, there's no need to feed your chicks grit unless you're feeding them snacks or they're getting outdoor grass time. It's definitely possible for chicks at an early age to eat too much grit and give themselves crop issues (they're very dumb darlings and still figuring out what food is).
  • Personally, it's easier for me to not feed snacks (which shouldn't be more than 10% of their diet in any case, their normal feed is nutritionally complete) or take them on outside excursions until they're 6 weeks+ and big enough for adult chicken grit. This somewhat played into weather with my later batches as well, I had October and February hatches where it wasn't really logical to take them out in cold weather until they were older anyway.
  • I'm not sure if I put a whole lot of stock in the "get your chicks used to your soil" thing. I usually give the chicks 3 or so outside excursions before they go out permanently, but my last batch had 1 outside day (dang fickle PNW weather) before going out fully and have been doing just fine. Training them to go to the coop at night by themselves is my biggest hurdle usually once they go outside

Hope that wasn't too much all at once, or that some of it was useful (at least to someone out there). Feel free to reach out again with any questions!

So thorough and so useful! Thank you for such a great reply!

 

[rosemarythyme]

I was using a handheld infrared thermometer to check temps. The far end away from the lamp was in the low to mid 70s F, directly under the lamp could hit some pretty hot temps (105F), but that was only in one small spot. The rest ranged from 85-95 and they hung out in those areas.

From the photo I see you have a heat plate, but you're saying you're also using a heat lamp? That's too much heat, you only need one or the other. Your temperature measurements are fine as listed above so if the lamp is maintaining those temperatures, I'd remove the plate so the chicks have more room to move around. Or conversely, turn off the lamp and let the chicks use the plate as the sole source of heat.

 

[raingarden]

Is that pieces of corn and whole grain you can see in the feed or I imagining that? I've never seen a chick starter feed that was not milled fine enough to make the ingredients indistinguishable. I'd opt for something higher in protein as well.

 

[WakaFlockaChickens]

From the photo I see you have a heat plate, but you're saying you're also using a heat lamp? That's too much heat, you only need one or the other. Your temperature measurements are fine as listed above so if the lamp is maintaining those temperatures, I'd remove the plate so the chicks have more room to move around. Or conversely, turn off the lamp and let the chicks use the plate as the sole source of heat.

I had a heat lamp first, but have switched them to a heat plate which seems to have benefited them significantly. You’re seeing a photo of the current set up with the heat plate - no lamp is currently being used.

 

[WakaFlockaChickens]

Is that pieces of corn and whole grain you can see in the feed or I imagining that? I've never seen a chick starter feed that was not milled fine enough to make the ingredients indistinguishable. I'd opt for something higher in protein as well.

It has 20% protein, apparently, but now I don’t trust anything about this barn so I’m switching their feed today.