Help! Chicks are dying! Larthergic, gasping, seizures and then death. Possible coccidiosis?

[cochins1088]

To get to the point, a friend of mine has chicks who are running around and appear healthy one day, and then dead the next. They are appear healthy one moment, but then they will lie down and start gasping for air or having dry heaves. A few moments later, they begin having seizures and die.

After some research, I found other threads with similar situations and most people ended up treating for coccidiosis, but I'm not convinced. There are no dark or bloody stools, and the symptoms just don't seem to match up. Any ideas?



If you'd like more details, here's the longer story version of the question. "I was over at a friends house last night helping her brace a chick with bad legs. All of the chicks were running around normally at the time. When we finished the brace, we went back out to the pen and saw a buff silkie chick (about 4 weeks old) just lying there. I thought that she was having dry heaves, but she could have been gasping for air. We took her inside and tried to get her to drink, but within 5 minutes the chick seized up and died. It worried me, but since the others all looked fine, I told my friend that it could have been a fluke and I went home. This morning she called me saying that another chick passed away in the exact same way. It was a 1 1/2 week old red star chick."

 

[flgardengirl]

They don't usually have blood in the stool until later in the disease...it is considered a late symptom which shows up after the intestine has been compromised. Do you have them under a heat lamp? They need to start out around 95 degrees and drop about 5 degrees per week until fully feathered out. What kind of litter do you have them on? Cedar can cause illness or even death in chicks. I use pine shavings instead. Other situations can cause illness like damp litter which can lead to fungal diseases in the lungs, bacterial diseases can also occur etc.

So sometimes you have to just start treatment in order to narrow down what the problem is. I would first make sure they were warm enough, then change all bedding and clean everything throughly. Make sure they always have access to water and food.

Treat for cocci with corid. You can put a few cc/ml in a 1 qt waterer.

Treat with antibiotics if you suspect respiratory infection. I use Duramycin for treating chicks with respiratory infections with good results. you can put 3/4 tsp of powder in a 1 qt waterer.

 

[cochins1088]

Yes, they are under a heat lamp. She is using wood shavings, and I'm pretty sure that they are pine.

Do the symptoms sound similar to coccidiosis?

 

[realsis]

it could be sudden death syndrome or SDS. symptoms are apparently healthy birds then extended neck gasping squaking wing beating then flipping over on to back and death occurs within 1 to 5 minutes. systems effected are heart and lungs. with sudden death syndrome the bird will go into convulsions before dieing. the cause for this is unknown. and according to my chicken health book it will not spread from bird to bird. they list possible cause as nutritional but its really unknown why. according to poultry international 40: 42/43; the main cause of SDS is due to change in balance of minerals levels of phosphorus and potassium. I hope this helps. I'm not sure what your friend is experiencing is SDS but symptoms sound similar. it would not hurt to treat for cocci as those symptoms are usually ruffled feathers very sleepy lethargic and not always but sometimes bloody stool. as above post States you can treat for cocci to rule it out. I wish you the best of luck. hope this was helpful in some way.

 

[cochins1088]

it could be sudden death syndrome or SDS. symptoms are apparently healthy birds then extended neck gasping squaking wing beating then flipping over on to back and death occurs within 1 to 5 minutes. systems effected are heart and lungs. with sudden death syndrome the bird will go into convulsions before dieing. the cause for this is unknown. and according to my chicken health book it will not spread from bird to bird. they list possible cause as nutritional but its really unknown why. according to poultry international 40: 42/43; the main cause of SDS is due to change in balance of minerals levels of phosphorus and potassium. I hope this helps. I'm not sure what your friend is experiencing is SDS but symptoms sound similar. best wishes

That does sound very similar, but she has had 2 birds die with in 12 hours of each other which leads me to believe that whatever it is, it's contagious. Hopefully I'm wrong. I'll have more information once she gets back home to check on them.

 

[Haunted55]

it could be sudden death syndrome or SDS. symptoms are apparently healthy birds then extended neck gasping squaking wing beating then flipping over on to back and death occurs within 1 to 5 minutes. systems effected are heart and lungs. with sudden death syndrome the bird will go into convulsions before dieing. the cause for this is unknown. and according to my chicken health book it will not spread from bird to bird. they list possible cause as nutritional but its really unknown why. according to poultry international 40: 42/43; the main cause of SDS is due to change in balance of minerals levels of phosphorus and potassium. I hope this helps. I'm not sure what your friend is experiencing is SDS but symptoms sound similar. it would not hurt to treat for cocci as those symptoms are usually ruffled feathers very sleepy lethargic and not always but sometimes bloody stool. as above post States you can treat for cocci to rule it out. I wish you the best of luck. hope this was helpful in some way.

I have no personal experience with this, but if this is correct, then a good vitamin with electrolites should be started immediately and it should take care of it.

 

[denisemhogan]

Thanks everyone...I came home and everyone looks good...that's the probrlem...the other two chicks looked fine...with in an hour...found gasping and dead in minutes. Its very weird. I started stripping everything down and sterilizing and put them on antibotics since that's what I had at home.

Hopefully doin this will nip this in the bud.

 

[BarredRockMom]

Hi all: 2 weeks ago, I brought home 3 new (12 week ish) members to our flock (of 4 healthy, 3yr old hens). When I got the new girls, I'd mentioned to the breeder that one of my older girls had had some rattling in her breathing & the occassional runny nose (no odor). She suggested that I get some Di-Methox & use it on my older girl. She gave all of the babies a preventative dosage of the stuff before I left. I got some of the it, treated my older girl directly and added the recommended dosage to their water (no vinegar or vitamins with the meds) & everyone seemed just fine until today. My husband went out to feed them (all) breakfast this morning & came back in saying that "Peepers is a bit lethargic this morning, you may want to come look at her." Sure enough, she'd walked under the coop & wouldn't budge. I had to use a broom handle thru the wire to gently scoot her to an area where I could get my hands on her. I took her inside, gently massaged her crop (lost one of my big girls in Feb 2013 to what I think was sour crop), gave her some Pedialyte & some Di-methox, as she had a strange smell to her head. I noticed some clear nasal discharge and what appeared to be some dried yellow gunk outside of one nostril. I put her on a thick, folded towel in a box where it was quiet, hoping she'd get some rest & recover. When I checked on her later, she didn't seem like she'd improved and I noticed that her head was shaking. At first I thought that her electrolytes were out of whack and gave her some more Pedialyte. But she didn't improve. I decided to stay with her instead of going out to dinner with my husband, as I didn't have a good feeling & didn't want her to be alone. I thought that she might improve when she genuinely seemed to be getting some rest, so I kept cuddling her against me & kept her warm. All of a sudden, her neck muscles seemed to contract and her head turned around to rest on her back. The feathers on her neck stood straight out. She relaxed after a few seconds and her head returned to a normal position. A couple of minutes later, she had what can only be described as a seizure. Let me tell you, it scared the dickens outta me & probably her too, poor little angel. I noticed more discharge from her nostrils, so I wiped it away, hoping against hope that she'd still recover. She had one more seizure a few minutes later & then just died in my arms. I'm glad that she wasn't alone, but at the same time, I'm heartsick wondering if there was something I could've done...and sooner. Reading all of the posts on BYC, I can't tell if she had Infectious Corzya (my suspicion), Cocci, Infectious Bronchitis or Mycoplasma Gallisepticum.

I always worry about my girls, making sure that they have clean water with vitamins & AC vinegar, they eat organic feed, free range thru a huge yard with NO pesticides/fertilizers, etc, I always go out with them & never let them out of my sight (hawks in the area). They catch worms, slugs, bugs and sneak into my organic garden & decimate my herbs, especially the dill. They get treats (after they eat their balanced feed) of melon, cooked eggs, tofu with garlic, sunflower seeds, a flax/sesame/chia seed mixture, lettuce and lots of other cooked veggies. Their house is large (enough room for 20 girls), well ventilated & I scoop their sand at least once per day. The equally large, attached chicken yard, though long ago stripped of any shred of vegetation, is dirt that gets turned over frequently, as I don't want them walking thru their waste when I can help it. Both their house & their yard are securely fenced. I frequently change their pine shaving lined egg boxes, provide clean grit and calcium. Now I'm worried that the other 2 babies and my 4 older girls are going to become ill & I won't know what to do. Honestly, I know that raising chickens can be trial & error, but this is the 3rd one that's passed away and it's killing me!!

I'm guessing that someone's going to say "Necropsy to be sure", which I should've thought of BEFORE burying her. Even so, any thoughts anybody? Obviously the Di-Methox wasn't the right course of action//treatment in this situation. It's twice as sad because she had the sweetest disposition of the group. Used to sit on my husbands lap & just peeeep, peeeep, peeeep, contentedly. Unless that's a symptom of something bad too, like Paratyphoid.

Almost feels like they have to pay for my learning curve & I hate that feeling...especially because of the fatal outcome.

 

[Haunted55]

Hi all: 2 weeks ago, I brought home 3 new (12 week ish) members to our flock (of 4 healthy, 3yr old hens). When I got the new girls, I'd mentioned to the breeder that one of my older girls had had some rattling in her breathing & the occassional runny nose (no odor). She suggested that I get some Di-Methox & use it on my older girl. She gave all of the babies a preventative dosage of the stuff before I left. I got some of the it, treated my older girl directly and added the recommended dosage to their water (no vinegar or vitamins with the meds) & everyone seemed just fine until today. My husband went out to feed them (all) breakfast this morning & came back in saying that "Peepers is a bit lethargic this morning, you may want to come look at her." Sure enough, she'd walked under the coop & wouldn't budge. I had to use a broom handle thru the wire to gently scoot her to an area where I could get my hands on her. I took her inside, gently massaged her crop (lost one of my big girls in Feb 2013 to what I think was sour crop), gave her some Pedialyte & some Di-methox, as she had a strange smell to her head. I noticed some clear nasal discharge and what appeared to be some dried yellow gunk outside of one nostril. I put her on a thick, folded towel in a box where it was quiet, hoping she'd get some rest & recover. When I checked on her later, she didn't seem like she'd improved and I noticed that her head was shaking. At first I thought that her electrolytes were out of whack and gave her some more Pedialyte. But she didn't improve. I decided to stay with her instead of going out to dinner with my husband, as I didn't have a good feeling & didn't want her to be alone. I thought that she might improve when she genuinely seemed to be getting some rest, so I kept cuddling her against me & kept her warm. All of a sudden, her neck muscles seemed to contract and her head turned around to rest on her back. The feathers on her neck stood straight out. She relaxed after a few seconds and her head returned to a normal position. A couple of minutes later, she had what can only be described as a seizure. Let me tell you, it scared the dickens outta me & probably her too, poor little angel. I noticed more discharge from her nostrils, so I wiped it away, hoping against hope that she'd still recover. She had one more seizure a few minutes later & then just died in my arms. I'm glad that she wasn't alone, but at the same time, I'm heartsick wondering if there was something I could've done...and sooner. Reading all of the posts on BYC, I can't tell if she had Infectious Corzya (my suspicion), Cocci, Infectious Bronchitis or Mycoplasma Gallisepticum.

I always worry about my girls, making sure that they have clean water with vitamins & AC vinegar, they eat organic feed, free range thru a huge yard with NO pesticides/fertilizers, etc, I always go out with them & never let them out of my sight (hawks in the area). They catch worms, slugs, bugs and sneak into my organic garden & decimate my herbs, especially the dill. They get treats (after they eat their balanced feed) of melon, cooked eggs, tofu with garlic, sunflower seeds, a flax/sesame/chia seed mixture, lettuce and lots of other cooked veggies. Their house is large (enough room for 20 girls), well ventilated & I scoop their sand at least once per day. The equally large, attached chicken yard, though long ago stripped of any shred of vegetation, is dirt that gets turned over frequently, as I don't want them walking thru their waste when I can help it. Both their house & their yard are securely fenced. I frequently change their pine shaving lined egg boxes, provide clean grit and calcium. Now I'm worried that the other 2 babies and my 4 older girls are going to become ill & I won't know what to do. Honestly, I know that raising chickens can be trial & error, but this is the 3rd one that's passed away and it's killing me!!

I'm guessing that someone's going to say "Necropsy to be sure", which I should've thought of BEFORE burying her. Even so, any thoughts anybody? Obviously the Di-Methox wasn't the right course of action//treatment in this situation. It's twice as sad because she had the sweetest disposition of the group. Used to sit on my husbands lap & just peeeep, peeeep, peeeep, contentedly. Unless that's a symptom of something bad too, like Paratyphoid.

Almost feels like they have to pay for my learning curve & I hate that feeling...especially because of the fatal outcome.

I agree with you about the Coryza and I would seriously think about switching antibiotics on the ones left. If they've been together, or even in the same building, they've been exposed. Even if all you can get right now is Duramycin-10, or Tylan, they may be more affective against what is going on there. I am very sorry you lost your girl and agree with you about the learning curve.

Infectious Coryza
Synonyms: roup, cold, coryza
Species affected: chickens, pheasants, and guinea fowl. Common in game chicken flocks.
Clinical signs: Swelling around the face, foul smelling, thick, sticky discharge from the nostrils and eyes,
labored breathing, and rales (rattles -- an abnormal breathing sound) are common clinical
signs. The eyelids are irritated and may stick together. The birds may have diarrhea and
growing birds may become stunted (see Table 1).
Mortality from coryza is usually low, but infections can decrease egg production and
increase the incidence and/or severity of other diseases. Mortality can be as high as 50
percent, but is usually no more than 20 percent. The clinical disease can last from a few
days to 2-3 months, depending on the virulence of the pathogen and the existence of other
infections such as mycoplasmosis.
Transmission: Coryza is primarily transmitted by direct bird-to-bird contact. This can be from infected
birds brought into the flock as well as from birds which recover from the disease which
remain carriers of the organism and may shed intermittently throughout their lives.. Birds
risk exposure at poultry shows, bird swaps, and live-bird sales. Inapparent infected adult
birds added into a flock are a common source for outbreaks. Within a flock, inhalation of
airborne respiratory droplets, and contamination of feed and/or water are common modes
of spread.
Treatment: Water soluble antibiotics or antibacterials can be used. Sulfadimethoxine (Albon

, Di-
Methox

) is the preferred treatment. If it is not available, or not effective, sulfamethazine
(Sulfa-Max

, SulfaSure

), erythromycin (gallimycin

), or tetracycline (Aureomycin

) can
be used as alternative treatments. Sulfa drugs are not FDA approved for pullets older than
14 weeks of age or for commercial layer hens. While antibiotics can be effective in reducing
clinical disease, they do not eliminate carrier birds.
Prevention: Good management and sanitation are the best ways to avoid infectious coryza. Most
outbreaks occur as a result of mixing flocks. All replacement birds on “coryza-endemic”
farms should be vaccinated. The vaccine (Coryza-Vac) is administered subcutaneously
(under the skin) on the back of the neck. Each chicken should be vaccinated four times,
starting at 5 weeks of age with at least 4 weeks between injections. Vaccinate again at 10​

months of age and twice yearly thereafter

 

[BarredRockMom]

Thank you, Haunted 55. I appreciate the input. I didn't have this little one for long, but it still got me right in the heart when she died. Am on the phone with my local TSupply to see if they have the suggested meds. I answered the question "what are you using it for" by saying "to vaccinate sick animals," because after hearing all of the stories about being steered 'in a more helpful direction', I'd probably lose it. Actually, my TSupply lady turned out to be very helpful (whew). They have the Duramycin-100 powder.

I read another thread last night where someone had been treating with SulfaMet & Tylan-200.
And someone else had used Durvet Duramycin-100 (powder) in their water + terramycin in/on their eyes with good success.

TS has Tylan-200 & one of the Sulfas, but in injectible form. I believe that giving thru water would be MUCH less stressful on everyone, especially since they like me & aren't too leary of my reaching down & picking them up. (I'm SURE that a couple of IM or SubQ sticks would change their view of me coming toward them, bribes in hand or not...)

So which is better do you think?