Help! Pecking order or bullying?

[Lola1609]

Hi, just looking for some advice (I’ve researched and read up but read contradicting advice on sites),

last week I rescued 2 ex-bats and brought them home to my current flock of 2 ex-bats and 1 hand-reared duck. I can section off my enclosure into 2 halves so kept the new girls separate for the past 5/6 days. I’ve been putting food near the wire so they all see one another and after a few pecks through the wire, the original girls seemed to lose interest.

Yesterday, I let them all in together and the noise and pecking was just awful! the 2 new girls eventually found a peaceful spot away from the others. When it was bed time, the OGs were in the coop and the 2 newbies hadn’t moved. After sorting out water etc I looked again and they’d gone! But not into the coop as I’d hoped... into the pet carrier in the corner (that they originally came to me in)...

this morning I have let them all out together again. And again, the pecking and chasing is relentless. 2 newbies have flown onto the coop roof and stayed there all day (with water and food accessible to them). One did venture down and into the nesting box but got chased out again. She threw herself into a corner, head right down and bum up, protecting her head. One OG seems intent on getting her despite the submission and another OG joins in somewhat half heartedly.

The duck does nothing but run around making a racket and I’ve seen her at times run at her food pile to chase them away but never hurting them.
I’m wondering at what stage is this normal pecking order and what stage is bullying. I’ve read not to intervene and I’ve read to intervene. Am I doing them a disservice by allowing them to stay on top of the coop all day? But don’t want to force them to the ground for the inevitable fight...

pictures of the run/coop are attached.

Any help GRATEFULLY received! I just want al the girls to get along as they all could have had such worse fates!! We also plan to add a couple more ducklings to the mix in the next month or so and I’m dreading doing this now but I know my Ducky needs a companion or 2...

 

[Lola1609]

Just wanted to add that I’m close to separating them again for a longer period of ‘look don’t touch’ but read somewhere that this will only mean more fighting when I do introduce them again. I’m also off work for a week from now and don’t want to reintroduce them when I’m away working for 10 hour days and unable to check every now and then how they’re doing!

 

[Parront]

When I am adding new birds, I make sure there are 2 food dishes, 2 water dishes, when I give the treats, 2 pans go down on opposite sides of the yard. Some stuff for them to hide in, I use those dog crates. Lots of roosting places that are not easy for the old girls to guard. It looks like they might be guarding the coop and not letting the new birds in, a small door makes that pretty easy. The top of the small coop in the run is a nice high place where chickens would want to be. Some fighting is normal. Keep an eye out to see if anyone is bleeding. It can look pretty vicious sometimes, but you have plenty of space for 4 chickens and a few ducks. Get girl ducks, males can be a problem. I just added 3 new birds to my flock of 15, they are fine. Here are a couple of photos of the first encounter in the yard. The last pic is a few days later, all is fine the new birds are in the back by the orange water bucket and the old girls are ignoring them. Yours might take a little longer without a rooster to enforce law and order!

 

[rosemarythyme]

5-6 days was probably not enough, plus your run is pretty empty of clutter and good hiding spots: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/ . Have at least 2 feeders/waterers available and use the clutter to break up line of sight so the dominant birds can't just hog resources.

The new ones will not want to use the coop because the carrier has been their home. Either you have to force them to not use it by closing it/removing it/manually putting them in (and if you do this, you need the coop door open at the break of dawn or they will fight in there), or wait until they get along better with the existing birds before they'll think of following them in.

 

[Lola1609]

When I am adding new birds, I make sure there are 2 food dishes, 2 water dishes, when I give the treats, 2 pans go down on opposite sides of the yard. Some stuff for them to hide in, I use those dog crates. Lots of roosting places that are not easy for the old girls to guard. It looks like they might be guarding the coop and not letting the new birds in, a small door makes that pretty easy. The top of the small coop in the run is a nice high place where chickens would want to be. Some fighting is normal. Keep an eye out to see if anyone is bleeding. It can look pretty vicious sometimes, but you have plenty of space for 4 chickens and a few ducks. Get girl ducks, males can be a problem. I just added 3 new birds to my flock of 15, they are fine. Here are a couple of photos of the first encounter in the yard. The last pic is a few days later, all is fine the new birds are in the back by the orange water bucket and the old girls are ignoring them. Yours might take a little longer without a rooster to enforce law and order!

Thanks so much for the info and the pics @Parront , you’re right, they’re really guarding things and although I do have quite a lot of space, it’s a long space so makes it harder for them to remain hidden for too long. I’ll definitely get more pallets and things in there this week to make hiding places and higher places to roost and perch on.
I read a thread about putting a cage for ‘look don’t touch’ in the middle of the coop and so I’ve managed to section off the inside coop. The new girls have the run of the caged bit with their sleeping quarters (the old animal cage) in there, some wood leant across so they can perch and get high and their own food and water. the old girls are let out of the little door into the big enclosure so they were really curious about them and stalking the perimeter (probs wondering what they’re doing inside the run!) but they’ve soon lost interest and gone scraping about elsewhere. I’ll keep at this for a good while longer as it seems to suit things better.

your reply has given me hope that this fighting will eventually end!!

I also read somewhere that ex-bats are ex-jailbirds so they’re a tough bunch makes sense that ex-bats meeting ex-bats would make for an interesting time!!
Thanks!

 

[Lola1609]

5-6 days was probably not enough, plus your run is pretty empty of clutter and good hiding spots: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/ . Have at least 2 feeders/waterers available and use the clutter to break up line of sight so the dominant birds can't just hog resources.

The new ones will not want to use the coop because the carrier has been their home. Either you have to force them to not use it by closing it/removing it/manually putting them in (and if you do this, you need the coop door open at the break of dawn or they will fight in there), or wait until they get along better with the existing birds before they'll think of following them in.

Thanks @rosemarythyme that link is super useful and great to get some ideas from about keeping different feeding stations hidden.

my run is long but not overly wide so I will get the other half onto creating some hidden zones and pallets etc. in there this week.

im going for another longer spell of ‘look don’t touch’ with the new girls in the coop run so more prominently in view for the OGs. They’ve been really curious and stalking around the perimeter this morning putting on a display of puffed feathers and loud noises which the new girls were suitably submissive towards... the OGs have now gone to scrape about at a little extension we have added on in the other end of the enclosure. I hope doing this for longer will be easier for them all as time seems to be key.

thanks for your help!