HELP! Rooster with weak legs, twisting neck

[Olandpoohandchickens]

Flan my hen Rhode island red she was 1 1/2 years old she just passed yesterday from cancer.
When we 1st got her she was a few days old. Jer neck became twisted after a couple of weeks she was still secluded from the rest of my flock but I kept her with her 2 sisters because she was still so small.
When he neck became twisted we took her to er. The vet there just gave up right aways amd told me kill her she gave me a pain med for what ever reason. As my chickens are not my live stock they are my actual pets. I got a second opinion right away the following days with our regular vet.
He examined her she was very healthy other than. He too question defect disease and so on. But he went out of his way to look into it further. And since it's hard to tell disease unless death he began calling around to specialist. He said it's easy to cull your flock to avoid a spread but he knew I wanted to try to save her.
At the er they did xray and gave us the anti inflammatory meds. Xrays where done to see if she had some type of metal in her. Anti inflammatory meds was given for any pain or discomfort she may be feeling due to her neck being twisted (animals feel pain to).
The er ended being more moneythN the regular vet.i spent a few 100 there. (Again she was our pet part of our family).
When I took her to our regular vet he examined the xray again and weighed out metal in her blood. He took blood test for other thing but she was fine. Other than her neck she was pretty healthy. He worked with me and we came up with the best plan. I continued to give her the anti inflammatory meds he gave me and avion multi vitamin I think it was 1 scoop per so many ounces and told me to give he vitamin e drops 3 orally. We watched her and after a week or two she was back to her self. Her regular vet only cost about 150.
I know every scenario is different but I took my chance and gave her life for another year and a half. She passed from cancer which the er vet said it was to wildly spread to keep her alive. That with her age to use 1 1/2 is not old but in chickens that is considered old. My poor girl hid her pain real well and I check the 1x a week thoroughly for any changes.
We are gonna miss her

I'm so sorry for your loss! Our chickens are more like our pets as well and I would try everything before I cull. Thank you for sharing your experience! What kind of anti inflammoatory meds did the vet prescribe?

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

I was thinking about this last evening...

If it is an electrolyte vitamin pack... I would skip the electrolytes unless he has been off water or had diarrhea... those can actually be overdosed... And do the vitamins at least a few doses directly to the beak... A standard amount of supplement in water that would be used on a bird who may not need them will NOT be sufficient to correct the issue.

Putting your general location in your profile can help to make more appropriate suggestions without having to ask first.

While I truly don't believe my recent case was vitamin deficit either... My recent hatches have had a lot of early quitters, plus some splay leg and bent toes... when I work very hard to maintain quality of my genetics. Upon researching... all indicators say vitamin deficit (other possibilities seemingly ruled out). So frustrating not knowing the whole truth.

Yes this is nature, but that doesn't make it easy. It's OK to be emotional about it.

Have you ever had a fecal float ran... internal parasite load could cause nutrient deficit even in a bird who eats the most. I won't worm without confirmation it is needed though... as only large round worms and tape worms will ever be seen in droppings and all others will stay in the digestive track and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass. Of course an external parasite load could also cause an issue, though I might expect that to be a bit more obvious, definitely check him for mites and lice if you haven't already. Night time with a flash light is best as it makes things much easier to see.

@rebrascora @Eggcessive are you able to offer suggestions here?


Please, if you can and don't mind... will you share what tests were performed in addition to the x-rays, what anti inflammatory they gave you, and why or how an anti inflammatory was to help the twisted neck if it was't an injury? Also was the specialist just an Avian Vet or something else? What was the specific med he gave you to help her and what vitamins and dosage they had you give for what age and breed of chicken? Had there been an actual reason for deficit in your case such as excess treats, bullying, or incorrect feed being used? And what did it cost you at the end of the day?

The support and info you offered is great!

But this information might be extremely helpful!

For me... if I suspect Marek's... euthanasia is a first resort not a last one. I need to protect the rest of my flock. But also more than that... even if it was JUST a vitamin deficit... in a bird with NO reason to have it.. that is genetic weakness... and since I breed... I don't want that bred into my flock... therefor... I believe even in the case of simple vitamin deficit... I will still cull. That would most likely mean eliminating the bird. But it took me many year to arrive at this conclusion, and I know it won't be the right answer for MANY. Unfortunately... with Marek's you can see recovery and think that wasn't it... but it may rear it's ugly head again... plenty of birds live WITH Marek's KNOWN to be effecting them.

Regarding a closed flock... Marek's cannot be passed to hatching eggs/embryos... so I consider incubator chicks and eggs safe to go out, presuming there was some sort of quarantine followed after collection. I don't personally feel like letting birds go with no symptoms is any different than letting birds go that have been vaccinated... as they can still be unidentified carriers, typhoid Mary's essentially... and in fact NO vaccinated birds welcome here. If you decide or confirm it is Marek's... you will have to decide when you bring in new birds if they will be vaccinated and quarantined long enough for it to take effect. Or if they will be unvaccinated and have to use whatever natural resistance they have on board. There was one gene identified that does create resistance to Marek's. Vaccinated birds can still get Marek's they are just less likely to get the tumors that push on the nerves that cause the symptom of paralysis. If you can't accept any loss... vaccinated might be the right choice for you.

Also... can you post a short video using youtube or vimeo and upload or link here so we can see? Maybe someone else has seen this and can offer more insight! It sounds neurological... but SO many things are and so many thing can look like Marek's that aren't! Any chance there was an auto oil spill, recent herbicide or pesticides applied, poisonous plants, rotting carcass, or rotting compost? I really try to look at the whole picture and not jump to conclusions.

Whether you choose to let adult birds off your pasture or not... It wouldn't be ideal. In the US... Marek's is not even considered report able since it isn't a threat to our food supply chain AND "is considered to be in EVERY poultry environment". With disclosure, so people can make their own choice... maybe.

I recommend not bringing in any birds that have ever been to pasture or broody raised to your place again. For me Marek's isn't nearly as scary as respiratory disease or some other things that can pass to the egg... But I am on a nonstop learning journey... even after more than 9 years there are still things I am learning and have so far to go. And my take may change with new information.

It was a difficult choice to process our own cockerels. But having the skill to help in the need of illness or injury and knowing I am doing so efficiently without adding more harm or pain especially when looking in the eyes of a bird that has been with us and we are attached is quite a blessing. I'm thankful for every day and every life! It doesn't make you cold... it basically brings me full circle in understanding how it is ALL interconnected. More aware of my personal consumption and I am humbled by the sheer amazement of what a miracle LIFE is!

I appreciate your time to write very much! Your information is very valuable as I've read everything I could find about Marek and I'm still not convinced that's what Wheels (my rooster) has. Ironically we named him Wheels because he was always the fastest chicken to run to us and he had some really strong kicks! How much of the vitamins should I feed to him directly?

I'm not using my birds to breed. We ended up with 3 roosters because the first batch of 4 chickens only 1 was a hen. (I'm uploading some videos of Wheels and you would see 3 roosters in the video and they are the original 3.) I tried finding homes for 2 of them when we first found out they were cockerels but without success. They get along extremely well so we decided to keep all.

I also suspected internal and external parasites. Definitely no external, I've checked every bird and they were very clean! I have not dewormed the flock and have not had their fecal tested. I will need to call around to see which vet would do the testing. I do add crushed pumpkin seeds and garlic to their diet and I have up the dosage yesterday. Wheels is not having diarrhea but the top roo (barred rock) is having a bit of foamy poop, he is also experiencing some upper resp. issue (sneezing) but is getting better. I would not use antibiotics unless I absolutely have to and so far I had not have the need to.

I don't even have any avian vet around me and this is my first time having a flock of chickens. I have learned so much from this site and appreciate everyone's input and support! And I completely agree that there is just so much to learn and we need to have an open mind!

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

Two videos of Wheels losing balance. One of the video shows how he twists/shakes his neck/head and he does this quite often, not just during/after eating. The stumbling is very settle at first which started 3 days ago. Yesterday evening was a lot worse and in the morning seemed to be better. I will take some more videos this evening to see if I can catch him falling (backwards mostly, but would get up right away). He's dropping his wings alot which makes me think it's his way of keeping himself balanced. He is still able to run around, crow, eat/drink, food call, chase others... etc. But when I picked him up just after video taping him I could feel his weakness because he would normally kick me very hard to get away but all he could do was bending his legs and "sits" on my arms.

Any feedback is appreciated! Thank you!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Flan my hen Rhode island red she was 1 1/2 years old she just passed yesterday from cancer.
When we 1st got her she was a few days old. Jer neck became twisted after a couple of weeks she was still secluded from the rest of my flock but I kept her with her 2 sisters because she was still so small.
When he neck became twisted we took her to er. The vet there just gave up right aways amd told me kill her she gave me a pain med for what ever reason. As my chickens are not my live stock they are my actual pets. I got a second opinion right away the following days with our regular vet.
He examined her she was very healthy other than. He too question defect disease and so on. But he went out of his way to look into it further. And since it's hard to tell disease unless death he began calling around to specialist. He said it's easy to cull your flock to avoid a spread but he knew I wanted to try to save her.
At the er they did xray and gave us the anti inflammatory meds. Xrays where done to see if she had some type of metal in her. Anti inflammatory meds was given for any pain or discomfort she may be feeling due to her neck being twisted (animals feel pain to).
The er ended being more moneythN the regular vet.i spent a few 100 there. (Again she was our pet part of our family).
When I took her to our regular vet he examined the xray again and weighed out metal in her blood. He took blood test for other thing but she was fine. Other than her neck she was pretty healthy. He worked with me and we came up with the best plan. I continued to give her the anti inflammatory meds he gave me and avion multi vitamin I think it was 1 scoop per so many ounces and told me to give he vitamin e drops 3 orally. We watched her and after a week or two she was back to her self. Her regular vet only cost about 150.
I know every scenario is different but I took my chance and gave her life for another year and a half. She passed from cancer which the er vet said it was to wildly spread to keep her alive. That with her age to use 1 1/2 is not old but in chickens that is considered old. My poor girl hid her pain real well and I check the 1x a week thoroughly for any changes.
We are gonna miss her

Thank you very much for sharing!

Given your history... I would have disagreed with your ER vet... and very glad you have a good vet to work with on a regular basis. It makes a HUGE difference! Of course I know animals feel pain (and hide it well), and yes I have spent the money to take a chicken to the vet. A basic visit is around $45 here. So awesome that you have resources to seek treatment as well.

So very sorry your recent loss, she was a beauty.

1.5 is quite young for chickens actually unless they are sex link or broilers. Many can live for 10+ years. But there's just not much fighting cancer... it's an ugly beast.

I don't mean to sound stupid, but how did they confirm? If that ER vet told you 1.5 was old for a chicken and is the same place that told you put down your young chick... I might never go there again...

I have found an avian multi vitamin in the pet department at regular stores before. It is liquid and easy to use... I see instant perk up in chicks that have been shipped and are struggling.

The thing about anti biotics... our bodies produce their own... they can kill bacteria both good and bad, and they do absolutely nothing for viruses such as influenza or Marek's. (those are fought off by T cells I think) However sometimes they are needed to treat secondary infections that arise from having the weakened immune system from the virus... bacteria can get out of control. I go the route first of giving probiotics... to boost the good stuff since it keeps the bad in check. A little yogurt, raw apple cider vinegar added to water, buttermilk... basically any fermented treat.

Yes, wings are often used in birds who need to help balance.

Pumpkin seed won't do anything for worms... is my understanding... But, if you have studies that show otherwise and not just hear say... I would LOVE to see it! I personally would keep them whole as things that are ground to small go through too fast and just get expelled and is better to spend some time in the gizzard (I think). Garlic is a good antioxidant, and has many positive uses. Really neither of them should be used on an every day basis... probably. Truly for your standard flock, not the one receiving treatment... no supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.

I would consider confining him... if for NO other reason to than to force rest and allow the body to try and heal itself. He could even be kept in small kennel among the flock so pecking order isn't disrupted. Though that might cause more annoyed pacing type action... he might settle down and rest given enough time. One thing I know for sure about my own family... maintaining our normal activity load does NOT help us recover. And he may be exhausted but keeping up appearances simply so he doesn't become a target to predators or other flock members.

I'm still getting ready to watch the videos that just posted, but I can already tell he is so pretty.

 

[Eggcessive]

The neck movements appear neurological at times, as well as the left leg movements and curled under toes once during the video. I would continue the vitamins, including E and a multivitamin with B vitamins. I would just watch and look for improvement or getting worse. I tend to let my chickens be, and when one gets in need of help or gets picked on, separate the chicken for protection and offer egg and chicken feed with probiotics. Chicken slings can be usefull with a lame bird. When one gets picked on by the others, I usually will put them down and do a necropsy. If I had one with neurological issues or a lame leg, I would get a necropsy through our state vet and get tested for Mareks. Hopefully, it is a vitamin problem, and not Mareks, but time will tell.

 

[EggWalrus]

The neck movements appear neurological at times, as well as the left leg movements and curled under toes once during the video. I would continue the vitamins, including E and a multivitamin with B vitamins. I would just watch and look for improvement or getting worse. I tend to let my chickens be, and when one gets in need of help or gets picked on, separate the chicken for protection and offer egg and chicken feed with probiotics. Chicken slings can be usefull with a lame bird. When one gets picked on by the others, I usually will put them down and do a necropsy. If I had one with neurological issues or a lame leg, I would get a necropsy through our state vet and get tested for Mareks. Hopefully, it is a vitamin problem, and not Mareks, but time will tell.

I didn't notice the leg "weakness", he seems strong standing, but I did notice the head shaking and lack of balance. Could he have an inner ear infection that is irritating him and affecting his ability to balance? Do chickens get inner ear infections?

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

The neck movements appear neurological at times, as well as the left leg movements and curled under toes once during the video. I would continue the vitamins, including E and a multivitamin with B vitamins. I would just watch and look for improvement or getting worse. I tend to let my chickens be, and when one gets in need of help or gets picked on, separate the chicken for protection and offer egg and chicken feed with probiotics. Chicken slings can be usefull with a lame bird. When one gets picked on by the others, I usually will put them down and do a necropsy. If I had one with neurological issues or a lame leg, I would get a necropsy through our state vet and get tested for Mareks. Hopefully, it is a vitamin problem, and not Mareks, but time will tell.

Thank you for your response and spending the time to watch the videos. I hope he will recover but if things turned out to be worse, I will get a necropsy done when he passes. He is not getting picked on fortunately and the hens are still following him around when he calls them over for food. The two other roosters don't seem to bother him at all.

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

I didn't notice the leg "weakness", he seems strong standing, but I did notice the head shaking and lack of balance. Could he have an inner ear infection that is irritating him and affecting his ability to balance? Do chickens get inner ear infections?

I had the same question!! But nobody else that I spoke to seem to suspect ear infection! But it does make sense, since everything is connected, if they can have resp infections they could get ear infections too?

 

[Olandpoohandchickens]

Thank you very much for sharing!

Given your history... I would have disagreed with your ER vet... and very glad you have a good vet to work with on a regular basis. It makes a HUGE difference! Of course I know animals feel pain (and hide it well), and yes I have spent the money to take a chicken to the vet. A basic visit is around $45 here. So awesome that you have resources to seek treatment as well.

So very sorry your recent loss, she was a beauty.

1.5 is quite young for chickens actually unless they are sex link or broilers. Many can live for 10+ years. But there's just not much fighting cancer... it's an ugly beast.

I don't mean to sound stupid, but how did they confirm? If that ER vet told you 1.5 was old for a chicken and is the same place that told you put down your young chick... I might never go there again...

I have found an avian multi vitamin in the pet department at regular stores before. It is liquid and easy to use... I see instant perk up in chicks that have been shipped and are struggling.

The thing about anti biotics... our bodies produce their own... they can kill bacteria both good and bad, and they do absolutely nothing for viruses such as influenza or Marek's. (those are fought off by T cells I think) However sometimes they are needed to treat secondary infections that arise from having the weakened immune system from the virus... bacteria can get out of control. I go the route first of giving probiotics... to boost the good stuff since it keeps the bad in check. A little yogurt, raw apple cider vinegar added to water, buttermilk... basically any fermented treat.

Yes, wings are often used in birds who need to help balance.

Pumpkin seed won't do anything for worms... is my understanding... But, if you have studies that show otherwise and not just hear say... I would LOVE to see it! I personally would keep them whole as things that are ground to small go through too fast and just get expelled and is better to spend some time in the gizzard (I think). Garlic is a good antioxidant, and has many positive uses. Really neither of them should be used on an every day basis... probably. Truly for your standard flock, not the one receiving treatment... no supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.

I would consider confining him... if for NO other reason to than to force rest and allow the body to try and heal itself. He could even be kept in small kennel among the flock so pecking order isn't disrupted. Though that might cause more annoyed pacing type action... he might settle down and rest given enough time. One thing I know for sure about my own family... maintaining our normal activity load does NOT help us recover. And he may be exhausted but keeping up appearances simply so he doesn't become a target to predators or other flock members.

I'm still getting ready to watch the videos that just posted, but I can already tell he is so pretty.

I work in a pet essential store and we use all natural/holistic treatments. And pumpkin seeds are used in both of my dogs for parasites treatment/prevention. I've only found one most recent study but it's done on humans. I'm not sure how much different chickens digest seeds vs. humans/mammals though, so I'm not 100% sure if pumpkin seeds would rid parasites the same way in poutry but pumpkin seeds contain the amino acid called cucurbitin, which paralyzes and eliminates the worms from the digestive tract.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22910218

I just wathced Wheels kicking up a storm dirt bathing and he was falling asleep in the dirt. When he got up, he was still experiencing unbalance and seems to be a little more than this morning. I will try him in a large cage tomorrow but all of them free range during the day so I'm not sure how he would like being confined. I do agree that a little more rest could prob do more good. I'm also picking up some vitamin E caps in a bit.

Thank you for your support and encouragement. He is very handsome and he is the biggest bird in the flock! Besides the unbalance/head shake, he's acting pretty much himself.

 

[Eggcessive]

I would not separate him in a cage as long as he is seeming to act like a normal chicken, and as long as others are not picking on him. He will be better off out with his flock, taking dust baths and pecking around for food. An inner ear infection is something to keep in mind with imbalance, but it is more often seen with a neurological issue.

When I first joined BYC, I believed a lot of the hype about things like pumpkin seeds, ACV, and DE. But I don’t use any of those now. I bought many pounds of raw pumpkin seeds online, my chickens would not eat them in any shape whole, chopped, ground, or otherwise. Scroll down to the section about pumpkin seeds and worming:
https://the-chicken-chick.com/control-treatment-of-worms-in-chickens/