Help! Springtime Stink in the Run

[aart]

Well, spread a bag of PDZ in the run and it seemed to help. My husband with the sensitive sniffer seems to think it doesn't smell as bad as before. Tossing around the idea of raising the run and bringing in a deeper base of sand come warmer weather. May do a side by side experiment with deep litter vs. sand. I'll keep updating.

I'd go for the 'deep litter' rather than more sand.

I used sand as a brooder bedding, which worked great for daily cleanups, but eventually the sand become saturated with pulverized feces and you can't separate them or clean it. The sand was good for nothing but filling some holes in the front yard from an auto accident.

Sand can help with drainage but it can also hold moisture, as you've found.
When it comes to chicken poop, moist equals stink.
The DL can also hold water but will also support a microbial population to 'eat' the feces that sand can't.

If you do decide to try the 'side by side' comparison, better put a tall(~12") barrier between the 2 as the chooks will fling one side onto the other.....
......or you can evaluate the 3rd option of a mix between the two materials.

Best of cLuck to ya, looking forward to hearing about how it works out for you.

 

[TalkALittle]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. By raising the run and adding sand I mean I'll be jacking up the run, setting it on railroad timbers or cinder blocks, and filling the base with sand and gravel. That will put the run about 8" above the current grade. I figure I can pretty much do anything I want to on top of that.

And yes, I planned on a nice high barrier between the two experiment areas. After a whole summer of trying to keep the mulch in my flower beds I realize full well how far they can fling things!

 

[FridayYet]

Sounds like a great plan!

 

[TalkALittle]

Thought I'd post an update on the situation of my run in case anyone is interested and to help others who might be in a similar situation.

What I'd decided would offer the best long-term fix would be to raise the coop and run, set it on railroad timbers, and fill the space with sand/gravel. Unfortunately, that can't be done until the snow melts and the ground firms up enough for a trailer or truck to get back there without sinking up to the axles.

Thanks for all the advise and suggestions that were offered. I have come up with the following to abate the stink.

Built up the boards around the bottom of the coop to 12".
Placed pallets down in half of the run. These are really sturdy with a solid deck.
Installed a tall board dividing the decked half from the wet sand half.
On top of the pallets I dumped a bag of shavings, a couple of flakes of hay, and chopped dried leaves that I had gathered last fall and were on the top of the compost pile that is now peeking out of the melting snow.
The mix is rather dry and will likely stay that way for a while given that it is up on the pallets.

I was going to do the whole run but realized that I'd just have to clean it all out when it comes to raise the coop anyway. Plus, half and half allows me to see which surface the birds prefer and also evaluate exactly how wet the ground is going to get (I'm still hoping there is a solution other than raising the run.).

Results after a few days:

The birds LOVE it! They've not had any free range time since December and with the combo of snow and muck in the yard, they probably won't get any quality ranging for a few more weeks. Since the litter offers WAY more scratching opportunities than the bare ground/wet sand, they spend almost all their time in the littered half.

The stink is gone! Well, not actually gone, but the smell of the litter masks the smell of the stinky soil REALLY well--even with only half covered.

I don't have to scoop/rake the run. Well, almost. There is still the half that is wet sand, but since the girls don't spend a heck of a lot of time in that half, there is very little poop there. I'm normally a little OCD about poop but I have to admit that there is something almost liberating in just dumping the poop from the sand side into the litter side and forgetting about it.

Anyway, I'm very pleased with this "stop-gap" measure and so are the birds. It will buy me time and make the wet spring more bearable until the summer when I'll make some more permanent changes.

 

[RonP]

You can see the litter half way up the 2 foot hardware cloth surround at the perimeter on the lower right. Middle left, you can see the litter at or above the 2 foot support board.

It's even deeper in the middle. This is "deep litter".

Never an issue with mud, bugs, or odors, unless you object to the smell of a forest floor after a refreshing rain...

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Congratulations. You've done a lot of work.

Hopefully people will read this thread and think about coop placement. So many look at their situation on nice days. What one needs to do is look at their property on the wettest nastiest days before siting a coop.

 

[TalkALittle]

This is "deep litter".

Never an issue with mud, bugs, or odors, unless you object to the smell of a forest floor after a refreshing rain...

I'm thinking that I'll probably end up doing deep litter in the new higher run in the end. My worry for doing it with the run at its current level is that the ground might be too wet underneath. I've read horror stories of "deep litter gone bad" because it was too wet underneath. Your earlier recommendation of wood chips would probably do the trick but a delivery of chips would still have to wait until the ground is firm. I'm going to watch the ground and see how bad it gets. If I think I can do deep litter right on top of the ground with the run at its current level then I might not have to raise it at all and will do deep litter on top of chips.

As an aside, I don't know where people are finding tree services willing to unload unwanted chips for free. Everyone I've called wants to charge me for the chips and delivery. Three yards was going to cost me $75 delivered!

 

[RonP]

I had a local service gladly unload a 10 yard load in my driveway.

Many municipalities also offer free chips for pickup.

If you have enough, wet, soggy soil, will not be an issue.

My soil started as red clay...now black gardeners gold.

 

[TalkALittle]

Congratulations. You've done a lot of work.

Hopefully people will read this thread and think about coop placement. So many look at their situation on nice days. What one needs to do is look at their property on the wettest nastiest days before siting a coop.

Thanks! Yeah, I pretty much knew it would be wet in the spring--the whole yard is always wet this time of year. In the spring every spot is equally bad and all the yard is spongy. Any area with frequent foot traffic turns into a boot-sucking mud rather quickly. I've got standing water from snow melt and rain in areas all over the yard. Surprisingly, the ground is the firmest in the run. The sand that I put down initially HAS helped a lot. In retrospect, in order to be successful, it would have needed to be much deeper. I didn't realize there would be as much odor when it got wet though. I could live with wet sand, but not stink.

 

[Blooie]

I have read those same horror stories! I don't know about "too wet" underneath the deep litter. I know we don't want it sopping wet, but if you can dry it out to some degree so it's just damp, then start your DL, I think you'll be surprised. I was doing mine wrong. Even though it was easy maintenance and I had no odor problems, and despite the fact that my chickens do very well on it, I wasn't getting a good breakdown of the litter. My problems were easily solved but if a method of keeping odors down and chickens healthy can work even when the method is questionable, then just imagine the benefits when it's all working properly! This is what I have learned:

-- I relied too heavily on pine shavings and not enough on other natural materials, like dry leaves, (complete with small twigs to help with aeration and prevent compaction) maybe a little straw, and whatever else I can find. Most of the microbes we want working our deep litter need oxygen to work well and small twigs and such provide that. I have learned to put in whatever I have on hand. I use grass clippings in the summer when they are available, leaves, garden trimmings and weeds, some straw, and water. Yep, water.

-- My litter was entirely too dry. It was like powder, and boy the dust proved it. After a year, I can still identify pine shavings, even deep in the litter in contact with the ground. Composting in the coop or run needs some moisture to work well. My good friend Beekissed even recommended that I inoculate my litter with a spray bottle and a mixture of ACV and water to jump start it. I just pulled the litter back a bit and very lightly sprayed an area, then pushed the litter back over it. The proportions don't matter that much, because then I gave the entire coop and run a gentle spray down with plain water from the hose. I also now dump the waterers on the litter sometimes when I'm cleaning them. I don't do that often, because it's easy to overdo and saturate a spot, but she was right! The litter around the waterer was in much better condition than what was in the rest of the coop. It is the same way in the run where melting snow and a little rain runs off the sides of it. Those edges all the way around the run are decomposing beautifully. It's the majority of the run and coop that were too dry. As soon as the weather stablilizes, I'm going to pull the litter back and hose down the ground underneath it, then put the same litter back over the dampened soil. I want to encourage the little bugs and worms and such, and I have never seen a worm one under the litter in either the coop or the run. Of course, our soil here is like concrete - another reason to dampen it before the litter goes in. Now I give it a light spray once in awhile if I notice that the dust is getting bad.

-- I was stirring it way too much and way too often. All I really needed to do was use a rake and lightly flip the poop just under the litter. Boy, you'd have thought I was digging for gold the way I dug deep into that litter and turned it over. And that, by the way, added tremendously to the amount of dust in the coop as well.

-- I've been using a poop board under the roosts. Now, that sounded great in theory, and I was one of the greatest advocates for using poop boards. But then, why? If I need the nitrogen from the poop to help in the decomposition process, why was I scooping it out into a bucket and taking it away from where it was needed? Simply raking that accumulated night time poop evenly across the surface of the litter, then lightly flipping some litter over it makes way more sense, and takes way less time than using a scoop and cleaning a poop board. The Sweet PDZ I was using on the board was also absorbent and it contributed to the dust in the air in there as well..

I've just recently started making these changes, and I've already noticed a difference in the deep litter. Right now I have too much straw in it, but in my defense the coop and run aren't heated or insulated so the chickens loved digging holes in the loose, fluffy stuff and snuggling in. I still get an occasional whiff of ammonia if I overwet it, but if it's in the run then I take some litter from the coop and add it, or vice versa. Easy peasy!

I think the most intimidating thing about deep litter is that it takes longer to explain it than it does to just do it. After a few paragraphs my eyes would glaze over and I'd begin wondering about other things, like: flies fly with their legs dangling down and then right in front of you they are suddenly walking on the ceiling.....I didn't see them flip over so their feet were up, did you? Oh, but I digress. Bee did a video of her deep litter and posted it recently. I'll see if I can find it and then edit this novel with the link.

Here's the edit with the link to Beekissed's video.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/70/deep-litter-method/1660