Help with Agressive Ganders

[krohnieburger]

Hey all!
I’ve got two ganders that I raised since they were three days old. They’re now a little over two years old, and for about a year I’ve been really struggling with them. They’re just so mean! It’s hard to even give them food and water because they’re constantly lunging at me. I used to free range them but I had to stop that because they would attack people and dogs that would walk by. This past winter, the more aggressive gander started to attack the other one and sometimes there was blood involved. We have chickens and the geese are supposed to protect them but all they want to do is bite them.
I just don’t know what to do. They’re very well fed and watered, they’ve got two kiddie pools of water to splash in. I’ve been trying to show dominance by going in and wrangling them, giving them big hugs and kisses, etc. but nothing seems to be working. I’ve currently got a nasty bruise and blood blister comboon my thigh from a goose bite. Any advice is needed.
Thank you!

 

[Pyxis]

You need to act like a dominant gander, not give them hugs and kisses - they don't understand that as dominance. You don't show an animal affection to establish dominance. What they WILL understand is you acting like another gander and laying down the law that you're dominant and they are not to mess with you.

You need to challenge them. Do not back down when they lunge at you. Get in their space. Get big. Spread your 'wings' out and charge them. If they don't back down, then neither do you. Bump them in the chest. Hard. If they come back for more, it's time to escalate further. Grab them. Not gently, not cuddling them. Force them to the ground. Pin their wings down. Don't let them back up until they stop struggling. And when you do let them up, drive your point home - gloat about the victory. Yell after him. Something like "Yeah, I thought so!" works. The point is just to 'brag' about having won.

You're acting like a dominant gander when you do this, and that's what you want.

From the goose sticky on this topic, and why it's what you want to do:

"A goose fight almost always begins the same way. One goose, whom either believes himself alpha to or wish to be alpha to another, hands out discipline for a behavioral infraction. It may be that Goose A believed Goose B grazed too close to him, or Goose B may have walked between Goose A and his favorite mate. Whatever the infraction Goose A disciplines Goose B. This may be a nip, it may be a snaked neck and a wing spread, it may be a hiss. Whatever the discipline Goose B has two choices. 1) He may accept it and obey by refraining from the behavior in question (and generally removing himself from Goose A's immediate vicinity) or 2) he may challenge Goose A to exert his own dominance thereby proving his actions were not wrong -- the dominant goose does as he pleases and therefore, if Goose B proves HE is, infact, dominant then his behavior was not punishable.

So lets stop here and relate this to a human goose interaction. Say you have a Gander, who we will simply call Gander for the purpose of this exercise. You are weeding your flowerbed when Gander nips you. Here we have Goose A disciplining Goose B. This means that Gander either believes himself alpha to you or wishes to be alpha to you and has chosen this opportunity to try to exert that dominance. You have two choices. You can accept the discipline by not effectively reminding him of the true hierarchy of your relationship. Or you can put him in his place. Obviously we know the appropriate choice here. You need to challenge his discipline to determine, in no uncertain terms, that you are alpha to him.

So lets go back to our goose on goose interaction. Goose B has decided that he will challenge Goose A's discipline. What does he do here? He meets Goose A's advance with an equal advance of his own. Usually this is the point in the interaction where wings begin to spread and necks snake. Goose B snakes his neck and spreads his wings at Goose A. This says "You may NOT discipline ME!"

So lets go back to a human goose interaction at this point. This is why I always encourage people to spread their arms, posture and snake their neck as the first line of defense against an advancing Gander. This is what he understands as the first step in a challenge to him. This gives him the option to back down before the interaction must escalate to a physical one. Many, many, many ganders will stop right here. They are bluffers, those geese. They like to talk a big game, but are not often prepared to actually play the game they talk. But what if he doesn't?

If Goose A decides not to back down when Goose B does not accept his discipline this is the point at which their interaction gets physical. They will dance around at one another, much like boxers in a ring, until one sees an opening to grab the other by the base of the neck. Once one grabs on, they both grab on.

Now, it's not really reasonable for you to be dancing around in a circle with a goose waiting for an opening to grab him by the base of the neck so you can beat the tar out of him with your "wings" (we'll get to the beat the tar out of one another portion in a moment). It's also not fair to the goose because you don't have a base of the neck at his level onto which HE can grab. So what's a goose owner to do? Look at what comes next in the goose to goose interaction.

Once they have ahold of one another, before the beating begins, what happens in this natural position? Their chests bump. Hard.

So what can you do that he will understand as the second step in a challenge? Bump his chest. Hard. This is also why blunt toed boots are excellent foot wear for chores. A good, hard chest bump tells the gander you will fight him over this. He understands it, it the normal progression in a challenge. It also mimics the natural dynamic between two geese as when you bump him he will be tossed back a little bit, losing his ground on you. When two geese are bumping one another it causes them to occasionally lose their grip on the opposing goose.

What happens if the chest bump isn't sufficient? Do it again. It would truly be a rare gander that would escalate an interaction to the bump stage and then not follow through after just one bump. In a goose on goose fight they will repeatedly bump and push one another with their chests. I, personally will bump up to five or six times before taking it further. This, imo, also mimics their natural progression. It also gives him ample opportunity to rethink his actions.

But what if he doesn't? What comes after the chest bump? Here's where the goose on goose action gets ugly. What comes after chest bumping, to put it bluntly, is beating the ever loving poop out of one another with their wings. This can take a long time, is likely to result in many large bruises and sometimes only ends when one or both geese are literally so exhausted they cannot possibly carry on.

I do not recommend getting into a wing beating match with a goose. It will hurt. And the bruises will last for weeks. I have never been in a wing beating match with a goose but I have had to break up wing beating matches between geese and the size and severity of the bruises I can assure you are not worth engaging them in the exact language they speak. Instead, like the grabbing onto the base of the neck, we need to look just a little bit further in the fight to see what happens. Now, some goose fights resolve themselves during the wing beating match. Those are usually the less evenly matched fights. Your goose does not realize he is not evenly matched with you however, so it's okay if we ignore those fights and focus on the fights that progress to the sheer exhaustion stage. In these fights the beating continues for what seems like forever, when one or both (usually both in an evenly matched fight) begins to tire it slows, they start throwing those chest bumps they used in the beginning back into the mix as it's less taxing and eventually one goose will fully pin down the other. In essence, whichever goose is more exhausted ends up pinned -- and therefore the loser. The pinning goes on for a few seconds to a minute, however long the winner feels like punishing the loser and then the loser is let up to tuck tail and run.

So if we skip the wing beating for our human-goose interaction what we need to do is skip straight to the pinning. You can do this one of two ways, you can literally pin him to the ground or you can pick him up and hold him very firmly with an attitude of meaning business. Both accomplish the same thing. They immobilize the goose, with force, for an amount of time the goose has no control over. One thing to remember when doing this is the goose should be positioned to run from you when you set him down. So if you pin him on the ground, you should swing him around to face away from you.

And finally we have the victory lap stage. No matter how exhausting the fight you will not see an alpha gander let a good beating go unacknowledged. He will spread his wings, stand tall, run to his gaggle and honk his head off about it. Now, your neighbors may find you quite amusing (and possibly insane) if you were to run around your yard honking with your arms spread out like wings. But you CAN mimic the effect by saying something aloud. I like "THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT!" in the retreating goose's general direction for good measure. (note: I in no way guarantee this will exempt you from being seen as the neighborhood crazy. LOL!) But this is, of course, optional. Though a good touch, I must say."

 

[cottontail farm]

The above is great advice. I had to use it with my gander this spring. Chest bumps had NO effect and i ended up pinning him to the ground. We only had to "fight" twice before he understand I was not worth messing with.
I like my geese, alot, but you CANNOT show any hesitation or fear once this process starts - he needs to know you are serious and not going to take it.

 

[av8torcrj]

I had a flock of about 12. Got rid of every last one of them. I got so sick of them screaming at me every time I walked out the front door. Not a moments peace for me or the other birds on the property. The pond was a muddy mess from all the fighting. I'm too old and too grumpy for that nonsense.
Little kid that came with his dad to pick them up was awful proud of them til one took a plug out of his upper lip while trying to put it in a cage. Never again.

 

[Darngeese]

The above advice is great. I would recommend NOT picking them up. This is just confusing to them and doesn’t compute in goose language. I was doing this until I got bit in the face.

 

[gimmie birdies]

I know this is old, I don't have a problem with my goose, unless I am messing with chickens. He nipped me when my arms were full. I position myself so he cannot get to me.

 

[Goosehill]

The above advice is great. I would recommend NOT picking them up. This is just confusing to them and doesn’t compute in goose language. I was doing this until I got bit in the face.

That’s the point where the freezer becomes a consideration. With a goose showing any signs of aggression, it’s a good idea to hold onto the upper neck if you need to handle the animal. A good bite on the face or ear is not pleasant…