Help with confusion over electrolytes and medicated feed

[tickens33]

Hello! My partner and I are raising a flock for the first time. We have 4 Buff Orpingtons and 3 silver laced Wyandottes. They are 2 weeks old as of yesterday and from everything we can tell, they seem to be thriving! I have a couple of (hopefully quick) questions about their feed and water.

When we first got the chicks, we started them on Purina medicated feed. However, we were also using Rooster Booster for electrolytes which we realized contains thiamine, and we learned the thiamine makes the medicated feed ineffective.

My first question: Since realizing the rooster booster had thiamine, we have taken them off the medicated feed. In my understanding, they were effectively not receiving the medication due to the supplements. Since the medicated feed is only effective if started in the first couple days of life, it seemed like it didn't make sense to continue with it. However, we are still mixing some of the medicated feed in with the regular feed so as not to waste it. Could anyone confirm if our thought process is accurate here? Should we just toss the remaining medicated feed?

Second question: During this research into the medicated feed, we also learned that electrolyte mix shouldn't be used for more than a few days at a time (the mix container did not say this anywhere, but we found the info on the rooster booster website). We had the chicks on it for about the first 10 days of life and they seem to be doing great; to be cautious though, after learning this, we switched them to plain water immediately. Would it now be appropriate to start putting ACV and herbs in their water as a natural supplement? Anything I might be misnderstanding here about the purpose of electrolytes for the birds' water?

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience and knowledge

 

[Chicken_tiger_catt]

Hello! My partner and I are raising a flock for the first time. We have 4 Buff Orpingtons and 3 silver laced Wyandottes. They are 2 weeks old as of yesterday and from everything we can tell, they seem to be thriving! I have a couple of (hopefully quick) questions about their feed and water.

When we first got the chicks, we started them on Purina medicated feed. However, we were also using Rooster Booster for electrolytes which we realized contains thiamine, and we learned the thiamine makes the medicated feed ineffective.

My first question: Since realizing the rooster booster had thiamine, we have taken them off the medicated feed. In my understanding, they were effectively not receiving the medication due to the supplements. Since the medicated feed is only effective if started in the first couple days of life, it seemed like it didn't make sense to continue with it. However, we are still mixing some of the medicated feed in with the regular feed so as not to waste it. Could anyone confirm if our thought process is accurate here? Should we just toss the remaining medicated feed?

Second question: During this research into the medicated feed, we also learned that electrolyte mix shouldn't be used for more than a few days at a time (the mix container did not say this anywhere, but we found the info on the rooster booster website). We had the chicks on it for about the first 10 days of life and they seem to be doing great; to be cautious though, after learning this, we switched them to plain water immediately. Would it now be appropriate to start putting ACV and herbs in their water as a natural supplement? Anything I might be misnderstanding here about the purpose of electrolytes for the birds' water?

Thank you in advance for sharing your experience and knowledge

you sound like you know what you're doing. I never use medicated feed, because I don't think my chicks need it.

 

[tickens33]

you sound like you know what you're doing. I never use medicated feed, because I don't think my chicks need it.

Haha, well thanks! We did tons and tons of research before launching into this. Now in the stage of learning by trial and error

 

[nuthatched]

They can still eat the medicated feed, it won't hurt them.
They don't need any supplements, their feed is a complete diet. Acv and herbs won't help anything, they often do more harm than good.

 

[tickens33]

They can still eat the medicated feed, it won't hurt them.
They don't need any supplements, their feed is a complete diet. Acv and herbs won't help anything, they often do more harm than good.

Thank you for sharing your perspective! Would you mind elaborating re: harm caused by ACV and herbs?

 

[Chicken_tiger_catt]

They can still eat the medicated feed, it won't hurt them.
They don't need any supplements, their feed is a complete diet. Acv and herbs won't help anything, they often do more harm than good.

you get a new profile pic?

 

[nuthatched]

Thank you for sharing your perspective! Would you mind elaborating re: harm caused by ACV and herbs?

Unfortunately, it's a common misconception that prevails that 'natural' is synonymous with 'safe and healthy'. Which is misleading at best as most of the deadliest poisons and dangerous substances we know of are naturally derived from common plants. I'm all for homepathic and naturopathic medicines, but I get nervous when people have the impression that herbs can only help and never have side effects, or sprinkling fresh or dried herbs on the feed with give staggering health benefits.
Some very serious and life-threatening side effects can easily be caused by 'safe', 'natural' homeopathic remedies, no professional naturopathic physician or herbalist will tell you that they're completely safe, without chance of risk or side effects. No real doctor will make a blanket statement on any method of treatment.
The compounds in plants can vary from the individual plant, one might have little compounds, its neighbor might be unusually high, that's why herb supplements are in ground or powder form, to average the dose. Not only can the plant vary wildly but the individual being treated can vary wildly in sensitivity to treatment.
Anyway, to the information.
For example:
ACV can block calcium absorption in low or moderate amounts and cause Acidosis in high amounts.
Garlic can be toxic by causing blood thinning and anemia and even deadly in low to moderate amounts, depending on the plant and variety.
Oregano, the amounts of helpful components in oregano can vary. At best, they're eating italian flavored feed, at worst, all that is happening is continual feeding low, low doses of antibiotics. Natural or not, it's still antibiotics. If you ever need to use real medical grade oregano oil (the stuff that you'd use for infection) it may not work since there's a possibility of resistance from exposure. Though most feeds anymore have oregano in them, the meet the clamoring. Mine dose.
Oils of plants that contain Thymol (basil, oregano, rosemary, mints, etc) if dosed incorrectly can cause anemia, blood pressure problems, gastrointestinal issues, even miscarriage, etc.
Mint oils, can cause tachycardia, kidney problems, shallow breathing, neurological problems, and convulsions among others.
Ashwagandha, if you took to much of it, causes gastrointestinal upset and vomiting, but it’s also known to exacerbate thyroid issues, cause low blood pressure, and auto-immune disorders as well as being potentially harmful to the liver.
And those are just a couple of examples.

 

[tickens33]

Unfortunately, it's a common misconception that prevails that 'natural' is synonymous with 'safe and healthy'. Which is misleading at best as most of the deadliest poisons and dangerous substances we know of are naturally derived from common plants. I'm all for homepathic and naturopathic medicines, but I get nervous when people have the impression that herbs can only help and never have side effects, or sprinkling fresh or dried herbs on the feed with give staggering health benefits.
Some very serious and life-threatening side effects can easily be caused by 'safe', 'natural' homeopathic remedies, no professional naturopathic physician or herbalist will tell you that they're completely safe, without chance of risk or side effects. No real doctor will make a blanket statement on any method of treatment.
The compounds in plants can vary from the individual plant, one might have little compounds, its neighbor might be unusually high, that's why herb supplements are in ground or powder form, to average the dose. Not only can the plant vary wildly but the individual being treated can vary wildly in sensitivity to treatment.
Anyway, to the information.
For example:
ACV can block calcium absorption in low or moderate amounts and cause Acidosis in high amounts.
Garlic can be toxic by causing blood thinning and anemia and even deadly in low to moderate amounts, depending on the plant and variety.
Oregano, the amounts of helpful components in oregano can vary. At best, they're eating italian flavored feed, at worst, all that is happening is continual feeding low, low doses of antibiotics. Natural or not, it's still antibiotics. If you ever need to use real medical grade oregano oil (the stuff that you'd use for infection) it may not work since there's a possibility of resistance from exposure. Though most feeds anymore have oregano in them, the meet the clamoring. Mine dose.
Oils of plants that contain Thymol (basil, oregano, rosemary, mints, etc) if dosed incorrectly can cause anemia, blood pressure problems, gastrointestinal issues, even miscarriage, etc.
Mint oils, can cause tachycardia, kidney problems, shallow breathing, neurological problems, and convulsions among others.
Ashwagandha, if you took to much of it, causes gastrointestinal upset and vomiting, but it’s also known to exacerbate thyroid issues, cause low blood pressure, and auto-immune disorders as well as being potentially harmful to the liver.
And those are just a couple of examples.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this.

So in your experience, just plain water is always best? Is there ever an instance where you, personally, supplement anything ("natural" or otherwise) in their feed or water?

Thank you for your insight

 

[nuthatched]

I really appreciate you taking the time to write this.

So in your experience, just plain water is always best? Is there ever an instance where you, personally, supplement anything ("natural" or otherwise) in their feed or water?

Thank you for your insight

You're welcome.
Fresh, plain water is best, if you need/want to add something, make sure you have a second source of plain water and that if it's acv, not to put it in a galvanized waterer.

 

[tickens33]

You're welcome.
Fresh, plain water is best, if you need/want to add something, make sure you have a second source of plain water and that if it's acv, not to put it in a galvanized waterer.

You've given me some stuff to consider and research, thanks again!