Help with LGD

[ameliadanielle]

Our Great Pyrenees, Luna, has never made it to the point where she can be trusted around our chickens. She was raised surrounded by chickens. She was over 6 months when we brought her home. She spent 6 months with just her and a pot belly pig sharing the backyard. Then we got chickens. At first she was fine. We had two chickens die with no wounds just a few missing feathers when they were around 2 months old. Still didn't suspect the dog. That is until a month later our daughter caught her holding down chickens and pulling their feathers out. Again 2 chickens were attacked. Two days ago, keep in mind she is on a chain when we are not home, she caught another hen and plucked her back naked, let the hen go unharmed just naked, and seems to have had a field day chewing on feathers.

We have tried keeping her on a leash and correcting her, staying outside with her 24/7 correcting her. Except she's smart. She checks the windows to see if we are watching her. So when we are not outside, all bets are OFF. She is headed towards being 2 years old now, and she is an absolutely worthless guardian. The only thing she guarded was the pot belly pig we had when we got her. Now that we do not have that pig, and instead have kept one of the piglets, Luna won't protect that pig either.

We are leaving Wednesday night on vacation, and we will have a house sitter, but now that she has caught and plucked a chicken while ON HER CHAIN, I am not comfortable even having her in the yard. We've done everything short of using a shock collar. I was scared ALL day she would somehow reach and grab another chicken today while on her chain. We thought about rehoming her as a pet only because she is an amazingly sweet dog. To us. Any new person or animal... all bets are off. I could not trust her not to kill a new dog. My cousin brought his dog over who is also a big, friendly, large dog. She was trying to be social with Luna and Luna lunged at her like she was going to eat her. Our poodle that we've had for years and was here when we got Luna? She is just a big old baby around him. She loves him. I seriously think she will never be able to accept anything new.

What do we do with her? I am nervous about being gone for a week. We spend countless hours outside with her, watching her, checking on her. We've become quite anal about it. I don't trust that the house sitter will have our vigilance when it comes to dealing with Luna.

Should we give up on ever having her be safe around our chickens and just turn her into an indoor dog? Another thing... I will NOT want to see the state my carpet is in when we return home if Luna stays inside the house the whole time.

 

[centrarchid]

The dog is suffering boredom to an extreme and is in the terrible two's that applies dogs like you are seeing. You are not setup to use a standard sized LGD. Dog quite salvageable but another party may be needed to do it.

 

[TalkALittle]

Did read it. Dogs can bite though muzzled. Muzzles can be swiped off. Dogs can crush other dogs and small animals while wearing a muzzle. Muzzles don't prevent the dog from lunging and leaping on a person knocking them to the ground. Muzzles don't prevent aggressive posturing that may incite a bite from another dog. A large dog with a muzzle can still muzzle punch another dog resulting in blunt force trauma and internal injuries. A muzzle punch to a person's face (a common location) can cause black eyes, broken nose, or concussion. A muzzle doesn't prevent the dog from dragging its owner at the end of the leash down.

Muzzles are wonderful and invaluable tools, but don't assume they completely eliminate all risk of injury or completely prevent a bite. They don't.

 

[beginnergirl]

A molosser breed (pyr) dog might be able to be trained not to kill chickens after they have killed birds. But this is a breed that works independently so they do not have the same desire to please as some other dogs. They make their own decisions and can shut down with some methods of training. Which doesn't mean they can't be trained. It can be more challenging. But the way to raise a LGD to guard livestock is to raise them with livestock as young puppies and train them. She already mentioned her dog does not guard the pig. Change is always possible. But it can take a lot of time. We are the ones who need training

.

 

[cackle2]

I have a friend with an inside dog Great Pyrenees. LOL. Have white carpet! But honestly, I would keep Luna as a family inside dog. I just know a lot about dog behavior and I am not sure you will ever be able to retrain her. For some reason she does not put the chickens in the realm of who she needs to 'protect'...instead for some reason she thinks they don't belong. Just love her for who she is. She will be a great protection for your family.

 

[baah]

Agree with much of what has been said here regarding this poor dog & your post is very telling. You mention that the dog is bonded to you, your poodle, the 1st pot bellied pig, etc. That should tell you that all those 'original cast members' are who she has bonded to & she will protect those beings from anything else that intrudes: chickens, other dogs, other people, etc. After raising LGDs for a decade & reading voraciously on the topic, I can tell you that the bonding of an LGD with its intended social group (those whom it will protect & serve) occurs primarily at 2-4 mos old, trailing off at 5-6 mos. Then that learning window pretty much closes. Also, the maturity of an LGD is very slow in relation to its lifespan....it takes 18 mos-2yrs for a dog to fully mature & most only live about 10 years. So your girl is just coming out of puppyhood when behavioral mistakes are common because energy is high (& supervision should be equally as high). I think it would be a crime to muzzle & tie up this dog, to punish her for simply doing what she has been conditioned and allowed to do: she is protecting the ones that she bonded to first & she has a lot of energy to spend (even tied up) so she catches whatever she can (a chicken in this case) to play with & pass the time.
Respectfully, you do not have an LGD. You really didn't have one when you brought her home at over 6 mos old & put her in the backyard. You have a large family pet that you should immediately take through a basic obedience training course so that you can keep her future behavior in check. She should also receive lots of exercise outside the backyard to give her an outlet for her youthful energy. You should not expect her to guard anything other than your family & your poodle. Remove the chickens from your yard or you will slowly lose them all to her. Not out of malice. Just because she doesn't view them as something to protect. ALL of these changes will make her a happier dog & you will be a happier dog owner in the long run.
With regard to a previous posting, most any dog can NOT be trained to do most anything. I have a border collie that will never be able to do the job my LGD does & vice versa, even as smart as she is. Great Pyrs have guarding in their genetics but the deck was stacked against you when you got yours at over 6 mos old because she was already too old to do the best job of bonding with any livestock. Once you primarily bond an LGD to people, they won't really care about or want to go out with livestock. My LGDs never see the inside of my house. They never leave the pastures that are home to the flocks they guard. The vet comes here to vaccinate them in the fields. They eat, sleep, play & live among the herds & flocks that are theirs to guard. They love my family members b/c we come out to feed, pet & play with them daily. They are loving animals to us but they know where their place is and most of them won't even come out the gate when called. They guard their animals ferociously against anything that trespasses into their territory.
I would advise to enjoy your Great Pyr pet & love her for what she CAN do for you, not punish her for what she can't.
Good luck.

 

[ameliadanielle]

Update on Luna. She eventually got very very very bored in this house and was always rushing to go out. Since the pig went in the freezer she had nothing to guard in the backyard except the chickens. I guess it clicked in her brain. She's been wonderful since the second the pig was out of the picture. The whole flock of chickens even sleeps with her at night. The muscovies won't, they roost on their own now away from the barking dog and her crazy chickens. She still comes inside at will, especially nights when she and the neighbors dogs get into a barking match. This is more for my sanity and peaceful rest than anything. She now would much rather be outside not bothering chickens than stuck in the house, bored, following rules. She comes to get her daily dose of attention from us and then she's done. She would rather play with the cat, her best friend, than spend much time with us.

 

[slingshotandLAR]

Shock collar is worth a try....

I trained my German shorthair to leave chickens alone in basically the first session. She thought the chickens were causing the discomfort, that was it done.

For a few days I would watch from the house and anytime she looked too interested I gavr her a little buzz, the collar I have can beep buzz or shock and all can be changed on the remote.

Next thing I did was tell her they are mine, I recommend any dog be taught the mine command. I trained her not to touch my things or the kids toys this way. Once she realized they were mine, her entire view shifted. She started checking on them, she even laid with them in the yard. She now protects them fiercely, she has killed raccoons and even treed bears that have tried to get in the coop.

Correction needs to be swift and stern, no two ways about it. Sounds like you may be being a bit too gentle with her.

Most any dog can be trained to do most anything, I assume but your post she is not house broken?? How about basic commands? Can you control her off leash? I ask because if the answer to these questions is no, you need to start over. Like completely over from the ground up puppy training over.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

It sounds like a socialization problem, the fact she can't accept new things. That is not your fault, it is the fault of whoever raised her as a puppy.

I think you could try the shock collar, it seems like one of your last options. See how she reacts to it.

Also give her some other things to do, like centrarchid said, she might be bored. Muzzle her and take her for walks, try and get her used to other people and animals. Also give her some chew toys so she has something else to chew on instead of chickens.

 

[TalkALittle]

The dog is 2 years old. The socialization window has closed. Behavior modification will take an immense amount of time, patience, skill and effort. Taking her on walks to "get used to other people or dogs" will prove disastrous and could very likely end in injury to others or even the owner.

I also don't think chew toys are going to be enough to occupy this dog at all. This is a breed that was bred to move with and tend a flock. That job uses a lot of mental energy. Tying a dog like this and giving it no outlet for its natural inclinations is going to result in exactly the type of behavior that's been seen. Put her in the hands of someone who can train her effectively to do a job and who can offer her the environment and opportunity to perform that job. All parties will be better for it.