Help with splayed legs and how long to leave chick in incubator

[Nabiki]

Since you mentioned that they're selling as feeders and that you got them off of eBay, I'm leaning towards bad genes.

 

[FloorCandy]

I didn’t realize they were from eBay and raised as feeders, probably some bad genes or nutrition from the parents. If you want to order more buttons I can recommend a great seller, he sells thru eBay and his site.

 

[Jada22]

They weren’t from eBay they were from a company here but yes the company seems to be selling mostly as feeders, my bad for not researching more. Although they did recommend good food and also sell this feed so I’m still not 100% sure.

I didn’t realize they were from eBay and raised as feeders, probably some bad genes or nutrition from the parents. If you want to order more buttons I can recommend a great seller, he sells thru eBay and his site.

Thanks but I presume this person is far from me, I’m in Ireland. Not a lot of people selling quail eggs here.

 

[gimmie birdies]

This rooster was a splay. I kept him from the other chicks because it was hard for him to keep up. When he was a week old I got younger chicks and put him with them. He was more advanced then the new chicks, and cured himself.

 

[Jada22]

Just to update everyone almost every chick has went downhill at some point, at this stage I’ve lost more chicks then chicks I have alive
What a heartbreaking experience this has been.
On a positive note one of the first chicks to have leg issues now seems okay. I have one very strong chick, the only one who hasn’t went downhill at some point. he looks as if he’s way older than the others. I have 4 chicks who are behind in comparison to him but they’re currently not falling over so fingers crossed things just improve from here because I don’t think I could handle losing anymore chicks.
Very undecided if I should try to get eggs from someone with a stronger flock in the future or if I should just give up at this point.

 

[Nabiki]

Don't give up! Get your eggs from a reputable breeder, and I think you'll have more success.

 

[Jada22]

Some pics to show size differences. In the first pic That’s the big one in the corner. The dark chick in the middle was previously doing well until he started getting very weak and kept falling over but he’s improving now. The smallest dark one on the left was one of the first to show leg issues and would always fall over but he’s now finally getting stronger and has stopped falling over. The smaller lighter chick was the last to hatch. The other lighter chick was very weak for awhile but is getting stronger.
Pic of them under the heat plate as well- I have this angled so it’s lower at the furthest point to make sure they can all get to their desired heat since they’re different sizes.
Does this look ok? I used very small food dishes because I prefer to change the food several times a day, I change the water and clean the waterer twice a day or whenever someone poops in it or gets food in it and since switching to towels I change them once a day. Is that enough? It doesn’t get very dirty in there.

 

[Nabiki]

That looks nice. Do you have a thermometer under the heat plate so you know what the temperatures are under there?

You're doing a good job of keeping them clean. That will help keep them healthy.

 

[FloorCandy]

I’ve found that heat plates are problematic for quail chicks because they’re so small and get cold so quickly. I’m wondering if the leg problems might have something to do with them falling asleep pressing against the plate and leaning to one side with the leg out for support. The way that one is standing tall to touch its back to the plate is not great, the plate should be high enough that it touches their back when standing normally, and they don’t have to stretch for it, they can’t sleep and stretch upwards at the same time. I realize that chick is at the tall part, but they’re stupid and it probably has no idea it’s easier to reach further in. I would put the tall side at natural back height and the short side at slightly above back height when laying down. But honestly I would use heat lights for at least the first week, if you have weaklings, longer. I started with a heat plate, for my first hatch, and I soon switched to bulbs because it’s easier for the chicks, plus you can watch them more easily to see any issues.

I feel pretty confident that the heat plate is causing the issues, after seeing that chick stretching upward, if they’re spending a lot of time tip toed, leaning forward, with the plate balancing them, they aren’t training the proper muscles for standing and running normally, so when they’re out from under the plate, nothing is working properly and they probably try to tiptoe, and end up off balance from not having the plate to push against, and topple over, so then they stick their legs out at weird angles for balance and train them into the wrong position. I’ve had chicks with this issue when they were struggling on their side for a couple days after hatch and then when they were stronger, they missed the vital period of time when they would train their legs to bend and lift and lower their bodies. I’ve had them recover by securing them into the proper position for a day or so, but they still waddle a bit for life because they don’t use their hocks properly.

The one small Italian chick looks like it has curled toes from the photo, this will make it impossible for it to stretch to reach the plate properly. I’m not sure how old they are, but after 2 days or so of being curled like that, I doubt you can repair them. As that chick ages, it will not be able to get around as well, and it will probably get sores on its legs and hocks from hobbling around if it lives to be an adult. I’m guessing it took a while to hatch and was one of the later ones to come out, the curled toes are pretty common for chicks who struggle inside the shell for a long time, the ankles are curled in and they’re basically in the same position they were inside the egg, and now that it’s out and growing, the rapid growth is perpetuating the issue. The chick will use a lot more energy to get around and complete basic tasks such as getting food and water, and as it weakens, will venture out less and less. If you had a bulb on them, I would recommend putting the food right under the bulb so that tiny weak chick can lay in the food and eat as much as it wants without moving or getting chilled, and I would put the water very close by.

 

[Jada22]

I only raised the side of the heat plate today because I found the bigger chick was staying out at the edges rather than under it. I can lower it again but not sure if he will get too cold by staying outside it. It was all lower before today. I’ve heard of a lot of issues with heat lights causing fires which is why I bought the heat plate. Maybe that was the wrong decision