Helping a poorly hen gain some weight.

[Aerliss]

Tl;dr: rescue hen laying shell less eggs, on antibiotics for possible infection, could do with gaining weight, don't want to separate at this juncture but she feeds from my hand. Can't be farmed animal protein or dried mealworms due to UK regulations (though have given her half a boiled egg, which she loved... not actually sure on where DEFRA stands on that so sshhh).

I've had my ex-commercial girls for just over two weeks, and three have settled into a nice laying routine and producing good eggs (Michonne's are on the small side but she's a little under the weather, working on her). However, Daryl is still producing shell less eggs.

We went off to the vet, she got a second vet in, and best they could suggest was an infection and put her on antibiotics (this was my thinking too, honestly sometimes I only go to the vet because the meds I want require an SQP to scrip). Or it could be cancer, but when you hear hooves think horses.

The vet also suggested she was quite thin. I initially put this down to them being rescues, but when I compared her to the others I realised she is thinner. She also goes to bed with a less full crop and generally seems less interested in the feed (FF or dry), and grass. She's in general much quieter and less exuberant than the others. I've been putting this down to personality but I think now that she's just not feeling well, and not eating much.

So, what can I feed her, even by hand, to gently help get more calories and nutrients into her, without upsetting her calcium intake? They're on layer feed that's 16% protein and 3.8% calcium.

Due to UK regalations I can't legally feed animal protein, anything prepared in a non-vegan kitchen, or dried mealworms (they come from China so I wouldn't anyway... also they make my skin crawl). There may be some leeway with live mealworms and she absolutely loves bugs, so I can get them... even though they make my skin crawl almost as much as the dead ones. However, mealworms have a warped calciumhosphorous ratio. I know it has led to hedgehogs with deformed skeletons, and I don't want to knock her calcium intake off, especially if she's not eating much of the feed or oyster shells.

I don't know how DEFRA feel about feeding their own eggs back to them (the legalese is dense and confusing) , but I have given her a little boiled egg, which she loved. Though tbh, if it comes down to sick bird, or breaking regs, I'll break the regs.

Also, I don't want to separate her at the moment. She's bottom of the ladder anyway, but not being picked on just yet. If I pull her out it may not only stress her all over again, but result in bullying when she goes back.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

You seem like you have a fairly good understanding.

Funny law cuz chickens REQUIRE the amino acids provided in animal protein... they are added into most of our commercial feed rations.. Though we do have something similar in the US it is about not feeding animals product to goats, sheep, horse... the type of animals that are strictly vegetation eaters, not for chickens which are actually omnivores.

I would go with the live mealworms, red wiggler composting worms, scrambled or boiled egg, maybe peas.... you can add oyster shell or another calcium source free choice on the side and it will not unbalance it.

Shell less eggs... probably a defective gland that isn't working to redistribute the calcium effectively if it's even being absorbed. You can try getting her calcium level up by feeding tums I think... or maybe even crushed human pill added to her water. @azygous I know you have some experience in this department, and advice here?

Or you can get a non medicated starter feed, flock raiser, turkey or game bird feed... all have more protein than layer. Your layer will be fine as long as you provide the oyster shell (or whatever calcium source you have) on the side.. they will self regulate.

Chances are it is likely age or genetic related. Hope she recovers, Good for you for trying!

The thing about eggs... isn't just the protein but it has sooo many more vitamins minerals and such, it would be a good resource IMHO and I would do it without saying anything. I understand why laws are in place... but I also understand they may not allow for individual needs and so far what I have seen is that MANY zero tolerance policies don't work 100% of the time.... It may not change anything in the end for the hen... but you will know you did everything at your disposal. She may be having some sort of absorption issue... that won't be corrected. Like necrotic tissue in the intestinal tract.

 

[azygous]

Safe non-animal sources of both protein and calcium are Greek yogurt and tofu.

The no-animal-protein in feed rule goes back to the big spongiform disease outbreaks of many years ago. You shouldn't get into trouble feeding protein that humans would normally eat. I think the law forbidding animal protein in feed applies to "recycling" dead animals as a protein additive in animal feed which applies mainly to commercial feed producers.

 

[504707]

Seconded on live greek yoghurt. (also cat food, but I didnt say it outloud)
I also sometimes treat my girls to crickets from Pets at Home. It provides fun and they get extra protein.

You also said they lay shell less eggs - are they getting enough sunlight?

 

[EggSighted4Life]

You also said they lay shell less eggs - are they getting enough sunlight?

That's good thinking.

If it weren't for all the factory birds who never see the light of day laying perfectly shelled eggs under false lighting conditions. But I really like the looking for clues deeper that you are going after.

 

[azygous]

The minute one of my hens lays a thin-shell or shell-less egg, she gets 200mg to 400 mg of calcium citrate with D3. Often, just this one dose is enough to get her back on track again laying good quality eggs.

I roll the pill in peanut butter or crush it and sprinkle it on grated carrots.

 

[SurferchickinSB]

Tl;dr: rescue hen laying shell less eggs, on antibiotics for possible infection, could do with gaining weight, don't want to separate at this juncture but she feeds from my hand. Can't be farmed animal protein or dried mealworms due to UK regulations (though have given her half a boiled egg, which she loved... not actually sure on where DEFRA stands on that so sshhh).

I've had my ex-commercial girls for just over two weeks, and three have settled into a nice laying routine and producing good eggs (Michonne's are on the small side but she's a little under the weather, working on her). However, Daryl is still producing shell less eggs.

We went off to the vet, she got a second vet in, and best they could suggest was an infection and put her on antibiotics (this was my thinking too, honestly sometimes I only go to the vet because the meds I want require an SQP to scrip). Or it could be cancer, but when you hear hooves think horses.

The vet also suggested she was quite thin. I initially put this down to them being rescues, but when I compared her to the others I realised she is thinner. She also goes to bed with a less full crop and generally seems less interested in the feed (FF or dry), and grass. She's in general much quieter and less exuberant than the others. I've been putting this down to personality but I think now that she's just not feeling well, and not eating much.

So, what can I feed her, even by hand, to gently help get more calories and nutrients into her, without upsetting her calcium intake? They're on layer feed that's 16% protein and 3.8% calcium.

Due to UK regalations I can't legally feed animal protein, anything prepared in a non-vegan kitchen, or dried mealworms (they come from China so I wouldn't anyway... also they make my skin crawl). There may be some leeway with live mealworms and she absolutely loves bugs, so I can get them... even though they make my skin crawl almost as much as the dead ones. However, mealworms have a warped calciumhosphorous ratio. I know it has led to hedgehogs with deformed skeletons, and I don't want to knock her calcium intake off, especially if she's not eating much of the feed or oyster shells.

I don't know how DEFRA feel about feeding their own eggs back to them (the legalese is dense and confusing) , but I have given her a little boiled egg, which she loved. Though tbh, if it comes down to sick bird, or breaking regs, I'll break the regs.

Also, I don't want to separate her at the moment. She's bottom of the ladder anyway, but not being picked on just yet. If I pull her out it may not only stress her all over again, but result in bullying when she goes back.

Can you just pull her aside and hand feed her a couple times a day? That is what I do to my little lowest on the pecking order pullet. She was not growing and is also blind in one eye, so when I give them treats a couple times a day, I just pick her up and hand feed her and she looks better after just a few days! Why are mealworms bad? I give those to my chickens all the time? Is there something I should know about mealworms in their diet?

 

[BlackHackle]

I use nonmedicated grower feed to help my underweights gain weight

 

[Kiki]

@Aerliss this may be a bit too personal so feel free to ignore but I am dying to know why you are worried about what is this DERFA says about feeding your pets.

Does DERFA (not sure what/who this is) come to your house to see what you feed your birds?

 

[Aerliss]

Thanks for the input, folks.

It's only the one girl who is laying shell less eggs. They get a few hours to range and they have a run (12sqf each). The others are giving me beautiful eggs every day, which I did not expect. They came to me through a rescue who buy hens from the commercial units when they depopulate at 12-18 months. So I'm holding onto the idea that she would not have survived the full laying season if this was a genetic issue. But who knows? They're not bred to last, after all.

The regs for chickens were put into place after the foot and mouth outbreak of 2002 which royally screwed our farmers. It cut across most of the country but was linked back to, iirc, a single farm feeding kitchen scraps to pigs. So the regs put in after cjd were extended and a blanket ban put in place. It's draconian. Like, even walking through your kitchen with their feed is frowned upon.

I've got oyster and egg shells on the side, but they mostly just kick them around. I can supplement her separately with liquid calc, which I did for a week. It didn't make a difference so I stopped, but I should probably start again, now I think about it. Give her a boost.