Heritage - Broad Breast crosses

[BreanneRN]

All of the MW crosses could roost in trees, no matter how huge their chests got. I've even had BB who could clear 4 ft fences and loved to roost on grills and other higher perches. Thankfully, not many were able to do that and I don't recall them being able to do that by egg-laying time.

None of mine will be free ranging until fully mature. If they still fly, I can pinion them I guess, or keep those penned, or cull them. If they get over the 6 ft fence they will be dog meat and their genes will be removed from the pool, won't be my dog, but my neighbor has no fence and won't be building any. I am planning to put 3 strands of barbed wire on the 6 ft fence which will increase its height to 7 ft. Right now, the BB hens act as a pretty good anchor for the Heritage Tom. He stays put because they do.

Everyone posting on this thread has used a Heritage Tom over BB hens, most of us using Royal Palm Toms. No one is trying to breed a BB Tom to Heritage hens. Although some have used their cross bred Toms with Heritage hens with success. I have seen some pretty large Royal Palms over on the coast. Mine is pretty average sized. The black spanish just wasn't big enough to do the job. Arpy (my royal palm) is pretty happy and stays busy. Next year I will take whatever I have from this year and breed in the Midget Whites to stabilize size/type. The hens from the BB crosses should be small enough to breed with the Midget White Tom and I will put a midget white hen with the Royal Palm Tom. Did not mean to imply that you can't get color from a Midget White (never said that) just that you won't get it if you breed only Midget White to Midget White. It is my expectation that I will get color from the Midget Whites.

If you read previous posts you would know all this, but I don't mind bringing you up to date... Some great pics of many resulting crossbreds on here and you are welcome to check it out. They are beautiful birds! Feel free to post some of your own crossbred pics if you have any, we would all love to see them and hear more about your experiences!

 

[TurkeyTimes]

Yes most success is a heritage tom over a BB hen, the BB toms just get too big too quick for natural mating. I wonder if anyone has tried AI? I think I only had success because my RP tom is overly large at 26lbs, so 10lb over breed standard. Any more pictures of successful hybrids?

 

[TurkeyTimes]

This is one of the hens resulting from RP semi pn tom over BBB hen

 

[BreanneRN]

Yes most success is a heritage tom over a BB hen, the BB toms just get too big too quick for natural mating. I wonder if anyone has tried AI? I think I only had success because my RP tom is overly large at 26lbs, so 10lb over breed standard. Any more pictures of successful hybrids?

I investigated AI on the internet and found an article about how it is done commercially, written by a college student who actually hired on to do the work. It was such a sad expose of what goes on in commercial operations that I didn't post the link. It was depressing. Sad that the birds have to suffer and sad that people had to do it as well. A very dehumanizing job. Not to say that doing it once or twice on your own turkeys would be that bad. It only has to be done once a week but takes a team to do it. The hen has to be turned upside down,to expose the vent area and with a huge BB hen that may not be a 1 person job. It isn't commercially, but they do it all day, day after day to a continuous line of turkey hens. It apparently takes a team of 3 to 4 men, 2 of which do the actual insemination (one to hold the bird, the other to inseminate) and the other 2 to move the birds along the line and keep them coming, catch them. So physical strength needed to do the AI and also you have to collect the sperm from the Tom. I believe he mentioned some kind of device that assisted with that part of the operation (and they mixed the sperm with stabilizers of some type, though that wouldn't be necessary in a home operation), but I'm sure the Tom wouldn't be exactly willing either. Anyway, after reading all that, I decided that would be a last resort... My goal is to produce birds that are able to reproduce naturally, and it can be done, so better to start out that way if you are able. It's a learning curve, but as you go along, you learn more and more about what it takes to make this cross. There is always some variation in all same breed birds, so you learn to pick the ones that will be best. Maybe a slightly smaller BB hen and a slightly heavier Heritage Tom. They have to be young as BB's are not long lived and need flexibility to be able to breed.
It is not really my plan to continue to cross BB to Heritage indefinitely, just until I have enough birds to go on to the next generation. In the crossbreds I will have put some meat and color genes in the mix and brought down the size a little. Each generation should be a little easier (natural breeding wise anyway). It is too bad that many of the meat strains developed before the BB took over the market are gone (such as the original Sweetgrass in Wyoming, the Ridley Bronze, Nebraskan), , though the colors continue to be bred in Heritage type birds. Porter's developed his Sweetgrass line from the original Wyoming meat line, but turned them into a Heritage type bird. None of those original birds were being produced by AI as far as I know though, and they produced enough to make money and satisfy their market.

 

[TurkeyTimes]

Sweetgrass birds were developed by Sweetgrass Farms in Big Timber, Montana. Not Wyoming. I like that they are originally a BB cross. I'm going to contact them and see if they still raise that particular BB cross strain. I would love to have the original line, I do not like how "down sized" heritage birds are.

 

[BreanneRN]

Sweetgrass birds were developed by Sweetgrass Farms in Big Timber, Montana. Not Wyoming. I like that they are originally a BB cross. I'm going to contact them and see if they still raise that particular BB cross strain. I would love to have the original line, I do not like how "down sized" heritage birds are.

I stand corrected, (regarding location of Sweetgrass farms), thanks. I believe the Oregon (blue or slate) was originally a meat bird also. Let me know if you find anything out about the original Sweetgrass, I would love to have some of those too!

 

[BreanneRN]

It appears that Sweetgrass Ranch in Big Timber, Montana is a dude ranch. Looked really nice though, I kind of want to go! Especially if they still have some of those turkeys, maybe I can swipe an egg... But they don't say anything or have any pics of turkeys. Does say 6 generations the farm is in the family.... Beautiful place!

 

[TurkeyTimes]

Yeah I saw the website and thought they might not do the turkeys anymore, nonetheless I need to email and ask. It's not all that far away and would be worth it to get original SG if they still do them.

 

[BreanneRN]

Well, new help from the world of science... This will help me pick eggs that will be less likely to have great flying ability! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4629466/Birds-flying-ability-affects-shape-EGGS.html

 

[Indyshent]

Oregon Gray is what you were looking for. OSU discontinued the project, birds were scattered, Porter's picked some up, then he tinkered with them and made more colors, if I recall correctly.

All turkey breeds are "meat" birds since Europe got them in the 1500s, excepting the Palms. No one has ever undertaken making the Leghorn turkey that I've heard of (though it's a worthy project because turkey eggs are so tasty). All "smaller" varieties intended for smaller ovens fail and nearly go extinct (MW and the Beltsville before it) because it's commercially better to breed a huge, versatile turkey then slaughter it earlier for those "small oven" people.

I think it's interesting how America has chicken breeds for all kinds of purposes but hasn't gotten onboard with doing the same for turkeys, even though they were kept by the Aztecs mostly for feathers (they had a turkey god, too!). Turkeys haven't been domesticated as long as chickens, which certainly plays a role, but I hate that they're typecast as table birds when they have more potential.