Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Arielle]

Quote: THere is a vaccine in horses that is live. IT is for EVA. A shedding stallion can transmit the disease to a mare and cause abortion issues, so a mare need s to be vaccinated long before breeding to that stallion. SHe needs to be quarentined after the shot. I bred horses that had very open rules about a number of things like all stallions must be tested and disclose the results.

Honestly I like that I don't have to vaccinate poultry-- I'm pretty much elmininating any animals that need to see a vet. I like that an ax is the answer to most health issues . . . I'm learning!!

Edited to add-- it is a 30 day quarentine = the shedding period.

 

[RiddleMe]

 
Hi,
 Picked this up from the BYC Buckeye thread. I have heard Mr. Akers is quite a talented breeder. Anyway, thought it might be interesting. I haven't watched it yet.
"slide presentation by Doug Akers from 2010 on judging show poultry. In that presentation he teaches there are three important factors in exhibition judging- Type, Condition, and Color.
http://www3.ag.purdue.edu/counties/perry/Documents/4-H/Judging Chicken Breeds.pdf  "
 Best,
 Karen
 Just finished. Interesting, educational and very illustrative PowerPoint presentation.

Very awesome!!! This helps me to see some of what people have been talking about as regards type.

Just read the PDF and its a nice little compilation of well bred vs hatchery birds. Favorite part was identifying the breed silhouettes on the 3rd slide.

 

[Laingcroft]

I think it's probably on topic to discuss this because hopefully people are showing their heritage fowl that are bred to the Standard. I would assume that the 30 day period would be when it would stop shedding, but would have to confirm with a vet. The larger concern is how much do you trust that every exhibitor observes that time window? What mechanism is in place to insure that it's followed? I'm sorry but with such a safety issue to birds, giving folks benefit of the doubt is not good enough when health and safety of my birds is at stake.

I don't know how common this is, but I saw something I thought was pretty smart/cool at the show this weekend.

Several exhibitors clipped large squares of heavier clear polyvinyl plastic (I would guess in the neighborhood of maybe 10-12 mil?) at the backs and sides of the show cages. It was clear enough to see through like a window, heavy enough to drape properly and kept roosters from interacting in a negative way. I imagine it could work as a contact/germ barrier as well.

 

[Beekissed]

That IS a good idea! You can get that really clear 4 mil plastic on a roll at Walmart, thick and strong.

 

[BGMatt]

I don't know how common this is, but I saw something I thought was pretty smart/cool at the show this weekend.

Several exhibitors clipped large squares of heavier clear polyvinyl plastic (I would guess in the neighborhood of maybe 10-12 mil?) at the backs and sides of the show cages. It was clear enough to see through like a window, heavy enough to drape properly and kept roosters from interacting in a negative way. I imagine it could work as a contact/germ barrier as well.

It is good for aggressive breeds like games (all game) when being exhibited to avoid injury, I've also seen it hung on inside of cages so feathers don't get torn up on wire. I don't think it'd do any good as a germ barrier. For those of you planning on showing your heritage fowl, and whom like the barrier idea don't forget that it MUST be clear. Opaque barriers are not allowed at most shows, a practice they called "framing" at least up here, and believed to give a competitive advantage.

I'm curious, those of you out there that have read "The Call of the Hen" by Walter Hogan (which is a fantastic and essential book to read by the way), have you used his "pre-potency" test and found it to be accurate? It is the only part of the book I never bothered with and never really thought about, but it came up in discussion the other day.

 

[Lacy Blues]

It is good for aggressive breeds like games (all game) when being exhibited to avoid injury, I've also seen it hung on inside of cages so feathers don't get torn up on wire. I don't think it'd do any good as a germ barrier. For those of you planning on showing your heritage fowl, and whom like the barrier idea don't forget that it MUST be clear. Opaque barriers are not allowed at most shows, a practice they called "framing" at least up here, and believed to give a competitive advantage.

I'm curious, those of you out there that have read "The Call of the Hen" by Walter Hogan (which is a fantastic and essential book to read by the way), have you used his "pre-potency" test and found it to be accurate? It is the only part of the book I never bothered with and never really thought about, but it came up in discussion the other day.

I've read it and find that part of what he presents to be very interesting. I, however, am still fumbling with finding the bumps and grooves. I will keep trying.

 

[Wisher1000]

I have recently acquired some birds and their condition left much to be desired. I am dealing with many issues at once, but I wanted some advice on some overgrown toe nails. I am tempted to go ahead and cut them back in the quick, stop the bleeding with stepic powder, and be done with it. If you have any experience or advice about this, please PM me so as not to get the thread off topic (although these are a heritage breed.

)

This picture came from Feathersite and was submitted by Ilana Nilsen.

My birds are not featherlegged, but this is very similar to the condition their feet and nails are in. I don't know how they were kept before I got them, but they are now being treated for scaley leg mites and I would love to get those nails back in shape, too.

 

[maryhysong]

I have recently acquired some birds and their condition left much to be desired. I am dealing with many issues at once, but I wanted some advice on some overgrown toe nails. I am tempted to go ahead and cut them back in the quick, stop the bleeding with stepic powder, and be done with it. If you have any experience or advice about this, please PM me so as not to get the thread off topic (although these are a heritage breed.

)

This picture came from Feathersite and was submitted by Ilana Nilsen.

My birds are not featherlegged, but this is very similar to the condition their feet and nails are in. I don't know how they were kept before I got them, but they are now being treated for scaley leg mites and I would love to get those nails back in shape, too.

wow those are long! You might try trimming part way back now, then do a little more in a week or so. Just wondering if they were on wire or on really soft ground? Just afraid they might bleed a lot of you trimmed them all the way back at once.

 

[maryhysong]

I'm curious, those of you out there that have read "The Call of the Hen" by Walter Hogan (which is a fantastic and essential book to read by the way), have you used his "pre-potency" test and found it to be accurate? It is the only part of the book I never bothered with and never really thought about, but it came up in discussion the other day.

I have read through it several times and keep his advice in mind when going through my birds. The prepotency test is the one part I have had a hard time with figuring out exactly how he does it. Maybe I need to read that part again with a chicken on my lap. I *do* think that the premise of it is bogus. (the whole shape of the skull indicating higher intelligence, ect) HOWEVER I also think that as part of the selection criteria it means you are looking at the head and perhaps picking the larger head with a deeper skull which seems to be desirable, at least in a lot of breeds.

 

[3riverschick]

This Call Of The Hen thing is interesting. From what I have read, there seem to have been two competing methods for selecting for egg production in poultry. The first ( I think chronologically) was developed and published by Oscar Smart. He was considered the top poultry geneticist of his day. His method involved trap-nesting ..or.. counting egg production by hens over a 3 month period. His work was published in 2 volumes I could find. "The inheritance of fecundity in fowls" (1917) at http://www.archive.org https://archive.org/details/cu31924003138710 Here is the 1921 edition (footnote), I like the pagination better : https://archive.org/details/cu31924003077611 and in the book which I bought from the U.K., "The Burn-Murdoch Poultry Course". Which interestingly arrived with an ephemera piece of 1918 glazed window screen, touted to be the next big thing in poultry coop window covering.).
Then Walter Hogan showed up with his observational methods of discerning potential for egg production. Personally, I think Oscar Smart was the more well educated of the two. However, with the growth of more backyard poultry persons with lives besides poultry.. trap nesting became a burden instead of a viable method. With the pressures of a busy life, who wouldn't want to trade months of trap nesting and record keeping for just "looking" at a chicken. While most small poultry keepers today don't have time for trap nesting, Still I wonder about Smart's' method.
From the Burn Murdoch" book, Just a brief excerpt to outline it, "I have found in practical selection that the best period for the winter test is 3 months, starting either on the 15th of Oct. and ending on the 15th of January, or starting on the 1st of November and ending on the 1st of February. The former period for the earlier pullets, and the latter for the later hatched.".
The way Smart pulled this all together, so simply and thoroughly, with his descriptions of laying factors L1, L2 and Zero plus how they inherit. Very interesting. I also believe that some may have thought they needed to trap-nest for a full year as the pros were doing with the laying trials...when Smart proves such is not the case.
It seems to me that, in the end, the two system's competition ( if one wants to call it that) was solved by the concept of time management. In the modern world, it simply was much easier to "observe" the fowl, rather than trap nest it.
Best,
Karen
(footnote) By the time the 1921 edition was published, the young man ,Oscar Smart, had recently passed away from chronic ill health.