Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[call ducks]

As far as selecting the best source to buy stock from--- this too is a matter of opiinion. ANd if a person already has some stock but is lacking in some area--and needs improving, going to another flock with that trait being stronger can help tremendously. My point being, that every flock is likely to be a bit different and what is best could be near or far.

I keep coming back to why the RIR was dev in the southern New England area and yet single combs are taking a hit here this winter more than past winters. SOme roosters that already lost tips are loosing more from those tips. THough oddly not all roosters are effected the same. What does this mean and what is the take away???

THe NH were debeloped north of here. Was the climate that much different over 100 yrs ago, or was management different ?? Was dubbing popular then but not now? Kinda like docking tails has become a no-no in Europe?

I find it hard to beleive that most people just starting out in to the heritage breeds cannot find something interesting locally. WIll everyone need to start out with the best of the best?? I look at the number of birds at the shows-- say Boston POultry -- and think there must be something good worth working with?

The best stock is a matter of opinion - I saw a huge white rock cock at the 4-H pro.show this year. Would I consider using him in a breeding program -- No not at all. In fact unless I am starting a new breeding program (as with the Rhodebars I am taking on) I won't touch a bird unless the breeder can give me growth rates of their flock - and to me it has to be measurable growth in that time. The thing about heritage birds they could make good eating but if they take 20+ weeks I don't want them. I want a fryer at ~15 weeks not 20 weeks so in my opinion off the best stock is the one that is traditional a fast growing bird.

I doubt dubbing was popular 100 years ago. With rosecomb in particular there can be fertility issues. I belive single comb was just the most common comb back in the development of most poultry.

 

[BGMatt]

As far as selecting the best source to buy stock from--- this too is a matter of opiinion. ANd if a person already has some stock but is lacking in some area--and needs improving, going to another flock with that trait being stronger can help tremendously. My point being, that every flock is likely to be a bit different and what is best could be near or far.

I keep coming back to why the RIR was dev in the southern New England area and yet single combs are taking a hit here this winter more than past winters. SOme roosters that already lost tips are loosing more from those tips. THough oddly not all roosters are effected the same. What does this mean and what is the take away???

THe NH were debeloped north of here. Was the climate that much different over 100 yrs ago, or was management different ?? Was dubbing popular then but not now? Kinda like docking tails has become a no-no in Europe?

I find it hard to beleive that most people just starting out in to the heritage breeds cannot find something interesting locally. WIll everyone need to start out with the best of the best?? I look at the number of birds at the shows-- say Boston POultry -- and think there must be something good worth working with?

Depends on how attached they are to a breed. This is my first year back after a couple year absence from poultry. I knew that come hell or high water I was going to raise Langshans again. I had to go outside the area to find them. Not that there aren't good heritage breeds in the area. Jim Volk has been an acquaintance for decades, lives about an hour away and has the best White Plymouth Rocks in the country. Truly awesome Jersey Giants are available in spades out here thanks to the efforts of Ed and Shawna Smith along with Sher Jennings. Light Brown Leghorns from Don Montgomery will make you drool. Tony Albritton has Speckled Sussex that look like they stepped right out of the Standard of Perfection. Kevin Noorlander is 15 minutes away and is a Hall of Fame breeder of Black Australorps. Bud Alston has some killer Rhode Island Reds and is practically a neighbor. Langshans? There just weren't any. I'm sure the story is the same elsewhere in the nation.

My point is, you're right. If you keep your mind open breed wise you can find some great heritage breeds local to you. Check out local shows, talk to people. Sooner or later you'll find a consensus who the real breeders in your area are. Then again sometimes folks (like me) are hard headed and stubborn and have to go outside the area. It might take a couple years for the birds to adjust to the new climate, might have a few extra health issues and odd laying or fertility issues due to the climate change, but it will sort itself out with a couple generations.

 

[fowlman01]

As far as selecting the best source to buy stock from--- this too is a matter of opiinion. ANd if a person already has some stock but is lacking in some area--and needs improving, going to another flock with that trait being stronger can help tremendously. My point being, that every flock is likely to be a bit different and what is best could be near or far.

I keep coming back to why the RIR was dev in the southern New England area and yet single combs are taking a hit here this winter more than past winters. SOme roosters that already lost tips are loosing more from those tips. THough oddly not all roosters are effected the same. What does this mean and what is the take away???

THe NH were debeloped north of here. Was the climate that much different over 100 yrs ago, or was management different ?? Was dubbing popular then but not now? Kinda like docking tails has become a no-no in Europe?

I find it hard to beleive that most people just starting out in to the heritage breeds cannot find something interesting locally. WIll everyone need to start out with the best of the best?? I look at the number of birds at the shows-- say Boston POultry -- and think there must be something good worth working with?

Most breeders of exhibition poultry do not hang out on the web, so unless you know how to find them you won't find them and they could be very close to you. Finding good breeders doesn't seem to happen via the web unless you find someone who is online and happens to have a phone number of a breeder. Best way is to go to shows .....second best way is to join the APA and get a yearbook that will list almost all the serious poultry breeders. Probably the worst way to find a good breeder is online. There are too many fakes to weed through and some are really good "internet breeders", so they can charm the dollars right out of your pocket real fast..

Management and environment are the key factors when birds are moved a few thousand miles. As a rule if you are getting birds from a knowledgeable breeder you should not have any problems with birds getting used to a new place. I have sent Oriental breeds to MN and they have done well .......even though they prefer a warmer climate. IMO it is how strong the birds are rather than where they are.

Walt

 

[hellbender]

The best stock is a matter of opinion - I saw a huge white rock cock at the 4-H pro.show this year. Would I consider using him in a breeding program -- No not at all. In fact unless I am starting a new breeding program (as with the Rhodebars I am taking on) I won't touch a bird unless the breeder can give me growth rates of their flock - and to me it has to be measurable growth in that time. The thing about heritage birds they could make good eating but if they take 20+ weeks I don't want them. I want a fryer at ~15 weeks not 20 weeks so in my opinion off the best stock is the one that is traditional a fast growing bird.

I doubt dubbing was popular 100 years ago. With rosecomb in particular there can be fertility issues. I belive single comb was just the most common comb back in the development of most poultry.

We have had very little problems with frostbite, but had a case about three weeks ago on an older cock and the weather wasn't as cold as the last few days. I have very seriously considered dubbing the production flocks. Simple procedure but my only problem is ....going to take over the day-to-day management of this operation and when I tangentially brought up the subject a while back...he almost hyperventilated.

 

[Arielle]

There is a price for giving up the reins.

 

[Arielle]

walt -- Great piont on getting to the shows to find your best resources. -- and going to a show is an eye opener. I almost fell over when I saw all the breeds of chickens. ANd turkeys and ducks. Some folks are chatty and others are not. A great way to collect information .I have found show secretaries to be very helpful. ANd the show bulletins have names varieties and phone numbers and home town listed.

 

[hellbender]

There is a price for giving up the reins.

Of course your are correct...but I still have a good hold on the tail...with both hands...

Yep..he'll have the reins....

 

[Arielle]

BGMatt-- You clearly had experience to guide you and only langhans would do to go along with old english games and leghorns. I detect a trend here. lol

 

[Wisher1000]

I just wanted to take a moment to recognize that this year - 2014 - represents the 100 year anniversary of the Campine (both Silver and Golden) having been accepted into the Standard of Perfection by the American Poultry Association. Lets hope that the breed sees a resurgence in popularity this coming year and that more people come to appreciate the beauty and functionality of this incredible breed.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Haahaaaa--



Reminds me of a black anguscow that would kick me IN THE THIGH--perfect aim-- everytime. I hate black angus to this day!! ( My apologies to those that like the breed-- I"m happy to eat every one though!)