Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[Zanna]

No offense at all. I feel the same way. I do have four five-month-old cockerels remaining from last fall's broody hatch, and my cockerel/pullet ratio for this year's chicks is looking like it's 2:1 or more. There are replacements in the works. Some will be from my remaining cock, a few will be from the one I just butchered, and some may be random because one of my breeder hens escaped the breeding pen one day while the bachelor boys were out and from that point on I have no idea who sired her chicks. The bachelors were cocks from last year, now culled because I had better birds growing out and needed the room. I have been eating a lot of chicken.

All viable eggs from that aggressive male have been hatched. He didn't sire many. I don't think the hens liked him much. I will watch his chicks closely for temperament.

My breeding program took another unexpected seemingly-backward turn last night. Went out to check the coops before going to bed and found my formerly favorite hen feet-up on the ground below the perch. She was my favorite because she appeared sturdy and vigorous, she was a great broody, she laid well, and her chicks popped out of their eggs like popcorn. She is suddenly my least favorite because she died of internal issues at a few months over one year old. I am going to have to be very careful about using her chicks in any breeding program. Unfortunately she had more chicks than any of my other breeder hens. This seemingly-backward turn is a blessing in disguise. I am glad I haven't culled any females yet, from either generation.

Note to self: When all the other hens have damaged feathers due to rooster treading, and one hen has back feathers in great condition, it may not be because that one hen has stronger feathers than anyone else. More likely there is something wrong with her. Especially if she used to be one of the rooster's favorites.

For you newbies, these are all reasons why the experienced folks say to breed from older stock. You don't know what you really have until the birds are a few years old.

Sarah

Did you do a necropsy on your hen, do you know for sure she died of internal issues? Just asking because I lost a coming three year old Cock who was instrumental to my BCM breeding program. Fine at 9AM, eating his treats of sprouted oats and boss. At 2 PM he was belly up. DH just happened to be driving by OSU the next morning so I sent him in for a necropsy. He was in perfect health and flesh they said. He died choking on a dried field pea (I feed a mix of whole grains among other things). Bummer for me but glad for the diagnosis as far as my breeding program went! His son is now in the pen with Mom, Grandma and an Aunt.

 

[gjensen]

No offense at all. I feel the same way. I do have four five-month-old cockerels remaining from last fall's broody hatch, and my cockerel/pullet ratio for this year's chicks is looking like it's 2:1 or more. There are replacements in the works. Some will be from my remaining cock, a few will be from the one I just butchered, and some may be random because one of my breeder hens escaped the breeding pen one day while the bachelor boys were out and from that point on I have no idea who sired her chicks. The bachelors were cocks from last year, now culled because I had better birds growing out and needed the room. I have been eating a lot of chicken.

All viable eggs from that aggressive male have been hatched. He didn't sire many. I don't think the hens liked him much. I will watch his chicks closely for temperament.

My breeding program took another unexpected seemingly-backward turn last night. Went out to check the coops before going to bed and found my formerly favorite hen feet-up on the ground below the perch. She was my favorite because she appeared sturdy and vigorous, she was a great broody, she laid well, and her chicks popped out of their eggs like popcorn. She is suddenly my least favorite because she died of internal issues at a few months over one year old. I am going to have to be very careful about using her chicks in any breeding program. Unfortunately she had more chicks than any of my other breeder hens. This seemingly-backward turn is a blessing in disguise. I am glad I haven't culled any females yet, from either generation.

Note to self: When all the other hens have damaged feathers due to rooster treading, and one hen has back feathers in great condition, it may not be because that one hen has stronger feathers than anyone else. More likely there is something wrong with her. Especially if she used to be one of the rooster's favorites.

For you newbies, these are all reasons why the experienced folks say to breed from older stock. You don't know what you really have until the birds are a few years old.

Sarah

I have come to a similar conclusion concerning breeding age. I had heard similar advice and it rung true with me. I have seen a couple pullets and first year hens get egg bound etc. I just figured that it was best to give them a year at least. I would prefer, moving forward, to use a hen that has went through a complete laying cycle. I doubt that I will ever get so religious about it that I will always wait too long, but I can certainly see preference paid to a hen that has been with me for a while. There would have to have been something to her for me to have kept her around that long.

Natural or semi natural attrition is not a bad thing, like you said. Part of the process, I think. If we raise enough, there will be one here and there that will not make it. Part of the wisdom in having a few more than you need.

Managing it adds a bit to it for me. I find value in the all in and out. I like fresh starts, clean housing, and fresh ground. I prefer not to mix age groups. Slowly, I am adjusting my little system to more closely accommodate my ideals.

 

[gjensen]

Did you do a necropsy on your hen, do you know for sure she died of internal issues? Just asking because I lost a coming three year old Cock who was instrumental to my BCM breeding program. Fine at 9AM, eating his treats of sprouted oats and boss. At 2 PM he was belly up. DH just happened to be driving by OSU the next morning so I sent him in for a necropsy. He was in perfect health and flesh they said. He died choking on a dried field pea (I feed a mix of whole grains among other things). Bummer for me but glad for the diagnosis as far as my breeding program went! His son is now in the pen with Mom, Grandma and an Aunt.

Guess they can have freak accidents to. If I had found nothing else wrong with him, I would have assumed something like a heart attack. Or something like that.

 

[Zanna]

Guess they can have freak accidents to. If I had found nothing else wrong with him, I would have assumed something like a heart attack. Or something like that.

That was one of my thoughts. It had been very cold for a prolongued period, unusual weather for here. I had been feeding a lot of extra protein and fats and I was concerned I had overdone it and caused organ failure because of it, especially as he was older. That was the biggest reason I sent him in for the necropsy and so glad I did.

 

[hellbender]

Guess they can have freak accidents to. If I had found nothing else wrong with him, I would have assumed something like a heart attack. Or something like that.

Nothing to base this on but I suspect more birds die of heart attack and/or stroke than we are able to discern without necropsy.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
I didn't necropsy the hen. She had swelling below her vent, and the swelling felt like excess fluid. Something was definitely wrong with her. I found her shortly after midnight and didn't have a way to store the carcass so I planted her in the fallow garden bed where the digging is easy and she can nourish whatever gets planted there next fall. Good thing my neighbors go to bed early. Digging holes in the back yard after midnight could be construed as suspicious behavior.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I cannot see being able to se anything until they are feathered out. I know that faster feathering does not necessarily mean better feather. I know that if they are getting feed decent feed and receiving good care, it is genetic. Other than that, I do not know much more.
.

That makes two of us. yes, it's genetic. I believe I read that it is a dominant trait--width of feather. Loose featheredness is an eye thing. For Mediterranean breeds the body feathers are to fit "rather close". The only way I'd know to deal with this is each year to select for it. I don't have this problem in my Anconas, but one in every so many Dorkings comes out noticeable more loose feathered, which makes me think it is a recessive trait. Regardless, it's fairly obvious wen comparing them to their confreres. If it is recessive, it means that once it's a dominant trait, it can be hard to get rid of, but I'm complete speculating about it being recessive.

Note to self: When all the other hens have damaged feathers due to rooster treading, and one hen has back feathers in great condition, it may not be because that one hen has stronger feathers than anyone else. More likely there is something wrong with her. Especially if she used to be one of the rooster's favorites.

Well, it all depends, if her eggs were coming with strong fertility, her then t would still speak of good feathering. Have you candle recent eggs?



On multiple cocks, exempli gratia, I just candled a bunch of eggs. My favorite cock, because it must be the favorite otherwise it's not dramatic enough, has had lower fertility, but I was blaming the winter. Well, everyone else has been going up as spring pretends to be here, but his just candles 11 duds for 11 eggs. Luckily I have two dudes on the side more than happy to move in. I'm just debating whether to call a spade a spade or to give him one more chance. Currently I'm running 5 cocks with the other two on the bleachers. This one is seriously hurting my flock average. Of course the Anconas are nigh 100%--they've got a libido from here to there.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
I stopped hatching a month ago. We've been having a premature heat wave. My brooder is set up to deal with moderate to chilly weather, not 90+ degree heat. Didn't want to cook the chicks so I stopped hatching several weeks earlier than planned. The last of this year's chicks are now feathered out and in the grow-out pens. The recently deceased hen did have good feathering. I will watch her chicks closely but now I know their mother's history I won't breed from them until they are at least two or three years old.

Good luck with your dud cock. Hope for his sake he starts to perform soon!

Sarah

 

[thedragonlady]

• Yellow House Farm
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• Location: Barrington, NH
• Joined: 6/2009
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I cannot see being able to se anything until they are feathered out. I know that faster feathering does not necessarily mean better feather. I know that if they are getting feed decent feed and receiving good care, it is genetic. Other than that, I do not know much more.
.

That makes two of us. yes, it's genetic. I believe I read that it is a dominant trait--width of feather. Loose featheredness is an eye thing. For Mediterranean breeds the body feathers are to fit "rather close". The only way I'd know to deal with this is each year to select for it. I don't have this problem in my Anconas, but one in every so many Dorkings comes out noticeable more loose feathered, which makes me think it is a recessive trait. Regardless, it's fairly obvious wen comparing them to their confreres. If it is recessive, it means that once it's a dominant trait, it can be hard to get rid of, but I'm complete speculating about it being recessive.



Nope, I do not agree. I have sold birds to people who did not follow my feeding and worming schedule. They frankly looked like hell. I, of course, raised more of the same, when I saw the photos.Once those birds were on my feeding/worming schedule, their feathers were lovely, just like their siblings, who had remained at home.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Joseph, this feather stuff got me thinking and looking. I handled a couple pullets yesterday, and the width is similar to your own. Quite wide in some of these pullets. They just are not sturdy.

I do not want the feather to be too soft and to lay semi tight. I do not want to get soft looking. Would not fit them well, or any Med well.

I think we got away from Lacy's and Magic Chicken's thoughts too fast. I just have nothing of value to offer.

I cannot see being able to se anything until they are feathered out. I know that faster feathering does not necessarily mean better feather. I know that if they are getting feed decent feed and receiving good care, it is genetic. Other than that, I do not know much more.
I can see it, but do not know anything about getting there with a flock that does not already have it.

I found a couple articles, but I do not have permission to post them.

Maybe since you don't have permission to post the article, could you post a link to it instead?

On multiple cocks, exempli gratia, I just candled a bunch of eggs. My favorite cock, because it must be the favorite otherwise it's not dramatic enough, has had lower fertility, but I was blaming the winter. Well, everyone else has been going up as spring pretends to be here, but his just candles 11 duds for 11 eggs. Luckily I have two dudes on the side more than happy to move in. I'm just debating whether to call a spade a spade or to give him one more chance. Currently I'm running 5 cocks with the other two on the bleachers. This one is seriously hurting my flock average. Of course the Anconas are nigh 100%--they've got a libido from here to there.

You've probably done this already but have you checked for bugs?