Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[YardBirdMom]

Howdy... 3rivers aka Karen, recommended I stop by here because I'm new to chickens, but already have a project in mind. Raising Partridge Rocks to the original breed standards, even though I have NO clue what those are.

She recommended some books that I'll start purchasing and in the meantime who is the closest PR Heritage breeder to Oklahoma?

 

[pigsflyacres]

No idea if someone is closer or not but here you go....http://horstmanspoultry.com/largefowlhome/partridgerock.html

Welcome!

Jennifer

 

[Lacy Blues]

Wow! Lots of newbies! Welcome folks!

 

[3riverschick]

Interesting thread and perhaps a bit ... disheartening? We have a small flock of Silkies for fun and have decided to expand into a dual purpose bird for meat and eggs. I've done some checking around and reading before making the plunge. The heritage birds appealed to me and my husband as they represented so many things we are loosing to a faster, more, poor quality society we are turning in to.

I guess I'm feeling like it's pointless to try because there's no way we can produce hundreds of birds a year. It's just him and I on 5 acres of land. Am I right in feeling its pointless and we can't even make a small contribution?

Hum.. you need to read some of thedragonlady's posts.
She has been in poultry over 50 yrs. Has very few birds
and raises a minimum of chicks each year. However, her
Buff Orpingtons are admired nationwide for their beauty
of type and production virtues. It's not how many you
have, its how you breed them. Some breeds need 100's
hatched a year, some don't. It all depends on the breeder's
aims and the needs of the breed. Some of the breeds here
on this thread are a work of preservation so they don't
disappear. The gene pools are smaller, the birds need more
upgrading after decades of neglect because they weren't
popular anymore. Other breeds here have actually been
recreated to help preserve what was left of the gene pool
thru the same neglect due to lack of popularity. Still other
breeds here are hugely popular and bred to a very high standard
because they meet today's needs for show, eggs and meat.
It all depends on which breed you start out with and what
you want from that breed and to do for that breed.
Of course you can make a contribution. These breeds
which are well-bred now won't stay well-bred if they don't
have folk willing to breed them. That's how these other once
well known breeds came to need saving.
Pick a well-bred breed which doesn't require 100's of chicks
a year. Pick a well known strain to maintenance. This is very
important. Because if the other folks having that strain have
a catastrophe like a predator hit, they need to be able to
resource their flocks. How will they do that if no one else has
the strain ?
Stewardship of the strain is the flip side of preservation of the
strain. Older breeders can share how many important strains
disappeared because the owner died or left the poultry world
without making sure the strain survived in other hands, or
died and the family dispursed the flock because they weren't
interested or didn't see it's value.
Best Regards,
Karen and the Light Sussex

 

[NYREDS]

Hum.. you need to read some of thedragonlady's  posts. She has been in poultry over 50 yrs. 
Has very few birds and raises a minimum of chicks each year. However, her Buff Orpingtons
are admired nationwide for their beauty of type and production virtues. It's not how many you
have, its how you breed them. Some breeds need 100's hatched a year, some don't. It all depends
on the breeder's aims and the needs of the breed. Some of the breeds here on this thread are a
work of preservation so they don't disappear. The gene pools are smaller, the birds need more
upgrading after decades of neglect because they weren't popular anymore. Other breeds here
have actually been recreated to help preserve what was lef of the gene pool thru the same neglect
due to lack of popularity. Still other breeds here are hugely popular and bred to a very high standard
because they meet today's needs for show, eggs and meat.  It all depends on which breed you start
out with and what you wantfrom that breed and to do for that breed.
    Of course you can make a contribution. These breeds which are well-bred now won't stay well-bred
if they don't have folk willing to breed them. That's how these other once well known breeds became to need saving.
Pick a well-bred breed which doesn't require 100's of chicks a year. Pick a well known strain to maintenance.
This is very important. Because if the other folks having that strain have a catastophy like a predator hit,
they need to be able to resource their flocks. How will they do that if no one else has the strain ?
Protection of the strain is the flip side of preservation of the strain. Older breeders can share how many
important strains disappeared because the owner died or left the poultry world without making sure the
strain survived in other hands, or died and the family dispursed the flock because they weren't interested
or didn't see it's value.
 Best Regards,
 Karen and the Light Sussex

Good example. I've had the privilage of judging her birds & they're really something. There are any number of breeders who produce small numbers of birds but the birds they produce are top quality. Once a strain is stabilized large numbers aren't always necessary. However, to get to that point you have to do some work & that's where so many here fall down.
That's why there are so many "is my chicken [singular] SQ?" or posts from people who want to buy one "SQ" bird. They want to win w/o any work.

 

[3riverschick]

Hello,
My name is Scott and I have found this thread to be very interesting, as was the original Blosl thread.I have read here for over a year and decided to finally join as we are about one month away,I hope , of beginning our journey into Heritage Poultry. I have read most of Mr. Blosl's site, Yellow House Farm site,reread the poultry section of our 1905 Cyclopedia of Agriculture and many other sources to begin what I hope is a long term furthering of my education in chickens. I think we are choosing Rose Comb RIR. I am confident that will work out well for our needs, and it doesn't hurt that RIR are the one breed that my father in law kept bred true for the hen house.As opposed to other breeds that were always crossed with the game roosters that ruled the barnyard flock. I was wishing that some here could point me in the direction of some honest birds for the foundation of our flock. We are in CNY but are always up for a nice day trip.

Hi NYREDS,
Scott just joined the thread and is looking for Rosecomb RIR in NY State.
Best,
Karen

 

[pigsflyacres]

The women I got my original trio of Red Dorkings from bred very few birds in a year. She sent me a well matched trio. Not her fault I couldn't follow thru. My discussions with her led me to believe that I wouldn't have to breed that many to be successful. I was wrong. You get to be like DragonLady because you've put in the time and you have the experience.

One of my other passions is horses. Always I see people watch a master and then think they can get the same results. They can't. You have to put in the time to take the 'short cuts'. They really aren't short cuts. It just looks that way to the inexperienced.

So if you get a really good strain that is easily accessible, you might not have to hatch 100 birds to get breeders for the next year (you don't have to replace all of last years breeders). You will certainly get good experience and know your birds better if you do. I think the key is to start with a strain that is not in trouble. This gives you time to play around and better know what you want to do. Not sure I'd flock mate, but I would plan on doing at least a rolling mating of the best birds. Do not think you can do this with just one cock. You always want at least a back up. I've been burned. I'll always have several cockerels on hand. Do not underestimate your predators. They have a lot of time to figure out ways to breech your defenses. I expect my chickens to figure out how to evade some predators, but not at night. Which is when I've lost the vast majority of my chickens.

There is no one way to do this. But for some of us, we know that the more birds we have to choose from the better off we will be. I might get to the point of Dragonlady or some other master breeder that gets good success with fewer birds, but I'm not there. I'm also working with a breed that just hasn't been kept up.

Jennifer

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
Please, Can someone post a brief description of "rolling mating" and "flock mating" ?
Also your favorite combinations for breeding within a family/flock ?
Aunts, Uncles, etc.
Thanks,
Karen

 

[MagicChicken]

The heritage birds appealed to me and my husband as they represented so many things we are loosing to a faster, more, poor quality society we are turning in to.

I guess I'm feeling like it's pointless to try because there's no way we can produce hundreds of birds a year. It's just him and I on 5 acres of land. Am I right in feeling its pointless and we can't even make a small contribution?

It's not pointless at all. The more interest there is in maintaining heritage breeds the better. If you start with a breed that is in reasonable shape and has a relatively straightforward color (like white or black) you should be able to maintain the quality of the birds you have and maybe slowly improve it over time. That's what I'm trying to do with my Black Javas.

I started out wanting a few laying hens. Then I found the original Heritage Large Fowl thread. It turned my thinking around. Then I fell in love with a trio of Black Javas at a poultry show and there has been no turning back.

Last year I got a straight run of 25 Black Java chicks from Duane Urch. I did not ask him for breeding stock. I had no idea how this breed would do on my property. The birds are far from perfect but all the traits are there to put together some excellent birds within a few years. Now I have my first batch of birds growing out. Only managed to hatch out 30 chicks between fall broody and winter/spring incubator hatches, which was about half what I wanted to hatch. Even with that small hatch there is one stunning bird in the mix. Not perfect. Needs more depth of keel and could be wider. But this three month old chick has a long back of even width, good head, dark eyes, dark shanks, some faint yellow in the soles, and a gorgeous beetle green sheen. It is the first chick out of the pen when I let them out to free range. There is hope. (Hope this bird survives, because I ate its father the other day. Will have to watch this bird's chicks for temperament. The sire turned aggressive and invited himself into the stew pot.) I would like to keep this flock closed. Will take another look at that decision in a few years.

The folks-in-the-know say to start with solid colors like white or black. Listen to that advice. I chose black because I fell in love with the birds and I thought the color would be easy. Turns out black is not as simple as it looks. Black is supposed to have a beetle green sheen. Not a purple sheen. Not purple barring. Not matte black. Not large patches of positive white in the tail. All those variations exist in my small flock. I can't imagine dealing with a complex color pattern!

So pick a breed and jump in. The worst that can happen is you eat the birds and start over.

As Baybrio said:

7. Just get started

 

[pigsflyacres]

The simplest explanation I've gotten is cock to pullets, cockerel to hens. Father to daughter, Son to mother basically. Every year you throw the groups together and choose your breeders.

Please correct me if I'm wrong! Also any other descriptions of successful breeding strategies.

I'm planning on using a rotational clan system with 4 families.

Jennifer