Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[catdaddyfro]

Now..if you really want to point a finger at disease running rampant through poultry and other livestock, you can point one at that man and the result you got in your birds and I'll tell you why. The antibiotics do weaken the pathogen and it can even possibly kill them off in such numbers that they no longer affect the host to such a degree. But...what about the pathogens that survived the antibiotic? They survived. Not only did they survive but they then breed more just like themselves, little carbon copies that genetically have a strong resistance to the antibiotic and can thrive past it...they even form a hard shell around their cells so that simple white blood cells found in the average immune system cannot penetrate them. This leaves a bird with a small colony of resistant pathogens strolling into the average flock of birds that are good at resisting the regular run of the mill GM but all the sudden they are exposed to SUPER GM, Resistant to all Evil Antibiotics and WBC that were previously their kryptonite.

The man you got your birds from feeds an antibiotic that is supposed to work on GM.... as a daily feed ration? Pretty soon that's like water off a duck's back to the super GM he is breeding that will travel with his flocks everywhere they go, all the eggs they produce, wreaking havoc on all the birds who would normally resist infection but are presented with an amped up version of GM because Farmer Tom decided to use broad spectrum antibiotics each and every day. Oh..and add to that GM all the other baddies because "broad-spectrum" means just that..is supposed to kill a broad range of pathogens. Lovely. Good job, Farmer Tom.

This is why we have wonderfully strong pathogens that kill those humans who ingest them, like E. coli ST131. The average person is ingesting e.coli sourced from another host for the better part of their lives as they move through this world and their bodies shake it off like it were a fly....no worries. Then drug resistant and superfly strong e.coli gets introduced into our food supply by Farmer Tom~AKA Too lazy and greedy to do things right, so will just feed antibiotics to make up for his shoddy livestock husbandry~and folks...and birds and cows, pigs and sheep... start to die.

Essentially, he is breeding very strong germ genetics that will still be around when he is long dead and gone. <Insert slow clap here> His legacy will live on...and on...and on as each consecutive generation of lazy and greedy farmer feeds the next new drug to the next strong generation of germs. Yahoo. What a great heritage line is being developed...everyone stand up and pay attention to that guy because he is really leaving footprints on this land.

Sorry for the sarcasm but this topic really gets my tailfeathers in a flip....

parvo-virus comes to mind here for some un-earthly man-made reason J/S

Jeff

 

[thedragonlady]

Well the neighborhood kids dumped a gallon of whole kernel feed corn on my doorstep last night.
Can I feed it to the chickens? Usually they just throw it at the house, this is much nicer.
Do I have to put it in a blender or crack it or something? Steam up or?
Thanks,
Karen
who's wondering if I should be giving corn to point of lay hens anyway,,,,or if I can excuse
myself by saying it is getting colder at night and the corn will help keep them warmer. .Hum.....

Feed the whole corn. It is better for them than cracked. Please send those kids my way too !

 

[thedragonlady]

I am truely grateful for indoor plumbing at this point in the conversation!!

In door plumbing is one thing, but soft toilet paper is important. In the 60s I used to write letters home on English loo paper. It was that slick.

 

[bnjrob]

WOW learning from this list a lot I know working with the birds is hard ,

Here is where i am Confused .

When a human ,dog ,cat,chicken , Get antibiotics .
the Antibiotics takes over and weakens the disease , Not the natural immune system . as MG attacks the red blood cells


The guy i got my birds from local treats his every week with AB Chick starter
I was also looking up Tylan 10 for chicken feed its like 50 bucks for a 5lb bag

Im trying to learn Now Not fight just asking Questions . I had to do mine in the faces on my turkeys where swollen , parton swollen this was like BOOM i didnt even know anything was wrong until a Guy came and bought chicks from me 2 weeks later coughing and sneezing
guy was just someone who went to roys before me and roy gave him my info

just all so sudden
I wanna learn More so i can Protect my next babies from the Get go .
Still puts me in tears but i have to learn to be better so i can protect the birds better . so from the get go i wanna have them on AB Food ?
this is where i wonder if that lessons their immune system ? Arielle Thank you for asking here . I do hate that many state vets do not do their jobs . i am wondering if the guy your working with just doesnt know how to read the results and thats better then telling you I dont know how to do the test ?

The medicated chick starter has nothing to do with MG - it is for coccidiosis. Amprolium is the "active ingredient" in medicated chick starter.

The amprolium in the chick starter interferes with the uptake of niacin and use of niacin by the coccidia. The chickens take the amprolium in via food or water and the coccidia eventually die from niacin starvation while they are still living inside the chicken.

There are very few medicines that are approved by the FDA for use in poultry because of possible issues of residue remaining in the meat and/or eggs. Poultry medicine has been, and is still, mostly based on commercial poultry practices. Why? Because chickens are technically a dime a dozen and few people are willing to pay for a veterinarian to care for their birds. What does this mean? For one thing, you will often find medications that someone may tell you to give a chicken (like advice often seen here on BYC) that is not approved for use in poultry. But it is often approved for use in other livestock. So you'll find large packages of medicines to dose an entire herd, making it more costly. For medicines that are approved for use in poultry, the focus has been on large commercial flocks - either flocks for food or at hatcheries - there again making the quantities of medication large and more expensive. If you've ever looked at buying vaccinations for poultry, you'll find most of them come in large lots meant for a hundred or more birds to be vaccinated from that one vial.

So as to your questions of putting the chickens on the "antibiotic" chick starter - that is your choice. Coccidia is everywhere and like MG, it is something that your chickens will deal with and survive or can die from it. The main cause of death from coccidiosis is related to dehydration from diarrhea. It's your preference as to whether or not to use amprolium in the water or in the medicated chick starter to control coccidiosis - but it for sure isn't going to have an effect in regards to an MG infection.

 

[bnjrob]

You??? How grateful do you think I am?

Seriously...every single time I step into a hot shower I thank the Lord for it. Each and every time for years now...ever since I moved away from the old homestead and got running water and electricity, I've never taken it for granted. More folks need to have several years of roughin' it and then come back to the luxuries of indoor plumbing, light switches and telephones. You'd see a lot less dissatisfied people out there.

Me? I'M RICH. Got all the necessities of a good life..toilet, shower, washing machine~and toilet paper!

AMEN!

 

[bnjrob]

I happened to get the state vet that day.

I dont keep parrots or similar birds. I don't want the 50+ year committment at this point in my life.

Tammy--

From what I understand , birds become carriers and you can't have that with your parrot. You are likely to be limited to the hatchery sources as they do test for everything and can have the birds vaccinated for a number of diseases like cocidia and mereks. I have not looked to see if MG has a vaccine-- that would need careful evalutaion if there is one. OTherwise MG comes in with the wild birds so . . . perhaps having no fowl suspectable to MG would be a better option to protect your parrot.

Each state has rules regarding vaccinations that can be given to poultry. There is MG vaccines, but MG is one vaccine that is often regulated. It usually has to do with things like live-virus vaccines and such. They are worried about birds becoming infected instead of immune and starting an epidemic.

 

[catdaddyfro]

The medicated chick starter has nothing to do with MG - it is for coccidiosis. Amprolium is the "active ingredient" in medicated chick starter.

The amprolium in the chick starter interferes with the uptake of niacin and use of niacin by the coccidia. The chickens take the amprolium in via food or water and the coccidia eventually die from niacin starvation while they are still living inside the chicken.

There are very few medicines that are approved by the FDA for use in poultry because of possible issues of residue remaining in the meat and/or eggs. Poultry medicine has been, and is still, mostly based on commercial poultry practices. Why? Because chickens are technically a dime a dozen and few people are willing to pay for a veterinarian to care for their birds. What does this mean? For one thing, you will often find medications that someone may tell you to give a chicken (like advice often seen here on BYC) that is not approved for use in poultry. But it is often approved for use in other livestock. So you'll find large packages of medicines to dose an entire herd, making it more costly. For medicines that are approved for use in poultry, the focus has been on large commercial flocks - either flocks for food or at hatcheries - there again making the quantities of medication large and more expensive. If you've ever looked at buying vaccinations for poultry, you'll find most of them come in large lots meant for a hundred or more birds to be vaccinated from that one vial.

So as to your questions of putting the chickens on the "antibiotic" chick starter - that is your choice. Coccidia is everywhere and like MG, it is something that your chickens will deal with and survive or can die from it. The main cause of death from coccidiosis is related to dehydration from diarrhea. It's your preference as to whether or not to use amprolium in the water or in the medicated chick starter to control coccidiosis - but it for sure isn't going to have an effect in regards to an MG infection.

exactly and too someone posted earlier that hatchery chicks are vaccinated for cocci(nope not true) and the amprolium in feed is not an antibiotic it is as stated above an inhibitor. Here you better feed it or have bottles of Sulmet around to treat bloody poopy half dead chicks. I do and I have raised nice birds from it otherwise I'd have nothing here to show for my hard earned cash and efforts but a lot of dead rotten birds(buzzard food)

Jeff

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

exactly and too someone posted earlier that hatchery chicks are vaccinated for cocci(nope not true) and the amprolium in feed is not an antibiotic it is as stated above an inhibitor. Here you better feed it or have bottles of Sulmet around to treat bloody poopy half dead chicks. I do and I have raised nice birds from it otherwise I'd have nothing here to show for my hard earned cash and efforts but a lot of dead rotten birds(buzzard food)

Jeff

Jeff

I have to do "double duty" here to keep cocci at bay. Medicated feed in the brooder, then for 1 full week after they hit the ground, I give Corid in their water in addition to the medicated feed....otherwise, they ALWAYS get it. Treating like this for the past 2 seasons and not one case.

I think the humidity here in the South causes more cocci than in other places

 

[Beekissed]

What did poultry fanciers do for coccidia before they had amprollium and Sulmet? That's what I would do if developing heritage stock...use a natural way to decrease the overgrowth of coccidia in the coop and soil environment and also in the intestines. There has to be a way to do that or we wouldn't have a chicken one on this Earth.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

What did poultry fanciers do for coccidia before they had amprollium and Sulmet? That's what I would do if developing heritage stock...use a natural way to decrease the overgrowth of coccidia in the coop and soil environment and also in the intestines. There has to be a way to do that or we wouldn't have a chicken one on this Earth.

LONG AGO....most chicks were hatched by a broody hen. As a result they are exposed to cocci from day 1 and develop an immunity to it. I've never had a broody raised chick contract cocci....but have had MANY an incubator/brooder raised bunch come down with it

Not sure how long coccidiostats have been around.....it was developed for cattle, so it may have been around quite a while

Edited to say: I also think (opinion here) chickens today are more prone to confined areas than in years past. Keeping the birds in one area as opposed to free range also concentrates the cocci in small areas where the birds are more prone to getting it