Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[brahmabreeder]

Alright I'm confused with these birds now. I have two pens of Brahmas laying right now. The one pen has been laying just fine with no problems. The other pen like I mentioned earlier had a hen who had her eggs break when they came out because she moved all the shavings out of the way. Well I put a towel down and a yoga mat on top of it. This was in both nesting boxes. I went out there today and both hens layed and both hens had broken eggs. One was fully there but just looked smashed and frozen the other egg I only found the shell laying on the floor. I do put out oyster shells. So do I have a possible egg eater or something else? Like I said one pen lays fine the other not so much. Before I only got broken eggs when the shavings were moved but today and yesterday eggs were broken.

 

[MagicChicken]

I certainly espouse the KISS idea, especially when it comes down to not confounding the situation with multiple breeds, etc... However, there are things that if you do them, they will doom you to failure or to years of repair, and it's worth understanding what those are.

Type is certainly more important that color, but that does not mean that all color flaws are equal and can be overlooked in view of type. The amount of black in a columbian color hackle, within reason, we subordinated to type, but some color issues. Mottled birds that are just a bit too white can be paired with darker birds because their type is so strong. There are things one can get away with. However, there are some things that if they enter your gene pool in an intentional fashion will undermine your whole project. If one selects for type, while ignoring these other points, one will develop a strain of birds that will, regardless of type quality, need to be completely reworked to fix major color issues. Going down the middle of the road, implies maintaining a certain balance. One has to maintain the obligations, if not necessarily the minutiae, of color with type if one is going to enjoy long-term success.

Good point. Color issues can be critical even with single-color birds. I'm working with Black Javas. They're black birds, so if I work on the body shape the color should take care of itself, right? Not necessarily.

When my original chicks grew out I was surprised at the variety of undercolor, which varies from dull black to almost white. I was thinking they all needed to be black undercolor because that is what the standard calls for. But last month when I took my two biggest cockerels to a show and later asked the judge about their undercolor, the judge pointed out that you need to use birds with lighter undercolor to maintain the sheen on the darker birds. If you only pair dark birds you will eventually lose the sheen. So you keep some light-undercolor birds and pair them with darker undercolor birds, and you only show the dark ones. Light bulb time for me.

I will probably set up a test pairing of two dark birds just to see for myself what happens to the plumage sheen, but I am going to use more of the light undercolor birds than I originally planned. The test pairing will happen at the end of the season after I've gotten enough eggs from birds with complementary body types. I'm still more concerned about body shape than color. But I am also trying to avoid color issues that may be a problem in the future.

This is my first breeding season with these birds. Can't wait to see the results.

Sarah

 

[Lacy Blues]

Alright I'm confused with these birds now. I have two pens of Brahmas laying right now. The one pen has been laying just fine with no problems. The other pen like I mentioned earlier had a hen who had her eggs break when they came out because she moved all the shavings out of the way. Well I put a towel down and a yoga mat on top of it. This was in both nesting boxes. I went out there today and both hens layed and both hens had broken eggs. One was fully there but just looked smashed and frozen the other egg I only found the shell laying on the floor. I do put out oyster shells. So do I have a possible egg eater or something else? Like I said one pen lays fine the other not so much. Before I only got broken eggs when the shavings were moved but today and yesterday eggs were broken.

Did you still put shavings in on top of your padding? They might be stepping on them, also if you're not collecting them before dark and they're getting frozen they'll split and if the girls step on them the next day they would definitely get squashed. Any chicken will eat squashed eggs. It's whether they are purposefully breaking them that you might have to figure out.

 

[TeaChick]

With all due respect to everyone involved....can we please keep in mind that Bob Blosl (God rest his soul), originator of this thread, focused a lot of attention to the "newbies" that frequent this thread. He taught several things that a lot of new folks still need to hear (in my opinion)

KISS (keep it simple)
Build the barn first (not meaning that feather or pattern is completely ignored, but that TYPE does come first with MOST breeds)
Go slow, and go down the middle of the road

I think these basic precepts helped a lot of people, including myself

There are certainly more detailed aspects of breeding once one is established in the hobby and several "breed/breeder specific" threads have spun off of this one.

But out of respect for Bob, who did so much for so many, I think we owe him the respect of continuing his philosophy, at least on this thread

Scott, I believe that if this thread is dedicated to the beginner and the young people , then the whole story should be told for everyone to learn the basics of breeding to the APA SOP. I will not post in this thread in the future.

If the focus is on the newbie and the educators stop posting, where does that leave the newbies?

 

[hellbender]

I've been breeding chickens my entire 'long' life and I helped my parents and grand parents before that but I still learn important things every time I come to this thread because we have always bred for production above all else. It's important to have people with deep knowledge of the SOP to give direction to those of us who are new to this aspect of breeding, no matter how long we've been into our chosen breeds.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote:
Check the smashed eggs. Do they have peck marks in them? I have a problem right now. One box and six hens.
I check often to make sure I pick up any eggs laid on the coop floor because they tend to peck at such eggs.
As soon as temp warms am making another nest box. This afternoon I went to collect eggs and found three
pullets in the box laying.
Nuts.
Karen

 

[Wisher1000]

<chuckle> Silly birds........

 

[brahmabreeder]

Did you still put shavings in on top of your padding? They might be stepping on them, also if you're not collecting them before dark and they're getting frozen they'll split and if the girls step on them the next day they would definitely get squashed. Any chicken will eat squashed eggs. It's whether they are purposefully breaking them that you might have to figure out.

Yep, I put shavings on top of them. I go out at 3 to check for eggs and then go out at 5 to feed everyone. So every egg is collected by five at night. I guess this weekend I can better monitor it and see what's happening. This just recently started happening because I got eggs from them in the bator that were just recently set/collected. Not sure what's going on.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird

Just a short post on this. If you remember back a while we discussed the importance of having the proper undercolor in the Columbian variety. Without the proper undercolor it is virtually impossible to get the black where it is supposed to be showing. In the primary and secondary wing feathers it helps to use a male with extra black in the wing along with good dark undercolor.
Hi snowbird,
Will this bold type work for my eWh Columbians in helping keep the Hackle Black in their hackle?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird

Just a short post on this. If you remember back a while we discussed the importance of having the proper undercolor in the Columbian variety. Without the proper undercolor it is virtually impossible to get the black where it is supposed to be showing. In the primary and secondary wing feathers it helps to use a male with extra black in the wing along with good dark undercolor.
Hi snowbird,
Will this bold type work for my eWh Columbians in helping keep the Hackle Black in their hackle?
Thanks,
Karen

Hi Karen, Going by your avatar you will notice that you need more black in the tail also. I would suggest that you go for more black in the wing, tail and hackle and when you raise enough you can start pick and choosing your breeders according to what you are working with. Keep in mind that all three of the Black feather areas work together. If you are weak in one area usually all three areas will be lacking a bit in color. The height of the Hackle you will have to work on with the process of elimination. I like to use a breeding male that has good dark black secondary and primary wing feathers. If you have a specific question let me know and will try and answer best I can. Don