Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[pigsflyacres]

I would think that if I was facing a dead end with the birds I had chosen to raise, that outcrossing to another breed would be perfectly acceptable. Yes it will cause some problems and yes it will take years to get to where you really wanted to be in the first place but with lethal genes cropping up and all the birds here being so very closely related, wouldn't it be an acceptable option?

Also, YHF has apparently done away with the lethal gene in his flock. I don't remember ever hearing him talk about low hatchability and/or survivability among his chicks... and he has some really nice birds.

IF there is a lethal gene. No one knows at this point. Right now its an issue of poor hatchability for what appears to be SG only. Hard to know how many are affected by it since many old timers are not on the net. My understanding is that when you outcross to another breed its preferable to go to one of the foundation birds if possible or a closely related breed. Neither of those is possible. Dorkings are ancient with apparently no Asiatic influence. I do think other breeds have been added in here and there. I think Leghorns have been used in the past which is why so many birds have white in the ear lobes....which depending on who you read is considered a sign of purity or not. The SOP allows for 1/3 white in the lobe. They've been instrumental in the creation of breeds such as the sussex, but it would make more sense to use a different variety than go outside the breed.

YHF crossed varieties. Which is where I think I would go if this was my variety and I was having problems. Mr. Dorking (thanks Karen, the name may stick!) implied last I talked to him that crossing varieties was no big deal if it would get you where you wanted to go. He likes to create colors so I'm sure he's done this and other things too. I'm not on Facebook (seriously I don't have that kind of time) so I don't know how extensive the problem is with SGs. I just tried to hatch some shipped eggs for Reds and while I can say the hatch was incredibly poor, I don't think it had anything to do with the birds. Rather I'm just experiencing really poor hatches this year when hatching shipped eggs for others. Inspite of the crappy winter the north east has had, my order from Horstman's is on track. So I don't think he's experiencing any problem with Reds. Reds do seem to be doing ok vigor wise.

I just really have no experience in solving this kind of problem. Just seems to me using another variety is less work than going outside the breed. I'd be interested in how others have solved such problems with their breed.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Ok, I'm just trying to help here and though I don't know anything about this breed of chicken it stands to reason, at least to me, that similar problems in other breeds could be looked upon to find clues in working out the problem.

So, with that, I just wanted to share a link and maybe you guys have seen it before and don't think much of it but I don't know so, I'll let you decide.

http://www.britannicrarebreeds.co.uk/breedinfo/chicken_scotsdumpy.php

 

[pigsflyacres]

When I had my Red Dorkings before, the woman I got them from told me they had the right length of leg to not try and shorten it and if I did get any with shorter legs, show them, but don't breed them. She sent me a stunning trio of birds. There were things that needed work, but not size or type. I didn't have them long enough to address leg length. Reds haven't been shown to the standard for that long because they were late comers to the party. Reds were farm fowl more than SGs were I suspect. I've looked at Scots Dumpy birds before. They're old and they are often described using adjectives that are used for Dorkings. Things such as boat shaped. I would not be surprised at all if they share genes somewhere.

They found a 'lost' flock to reinvigorate native birds. There are individuals looking into importation for Dorkings. That may solve the problem. Again...it would be nice to know exactly what the problem is and if there really is a problem. I think there is a problem because some of the individuals having low hatch rates, are experienced. When we talk about loss of vigor that can include things like lethal genes becoming concentrated. Chickens have a lot of genes that can have unexpected outcomes. The woman I got my original birds from was certainly an experienced breeder. I'm sure what she told me wasn't a secret.

I also think that this is a breed of chicken that doesn't like the commercial diets. They should maybe go live with hellbender. I think that's the kind of diet they would thrive on. I know when I went from a breeder ration that had animal protein in it to one without and more soy, my fertility dropped. At the time I thought it was my birds. 10 years later, I think the feed was the problem. I'm not prepared to grind meat and bones and pressure cook because I'm just not set up for it But there are things I'm planning to do.

 

[hellbender]

When I had my Red Dorkings before, the woman I got them from told me they had the right length of leg to not try and shorten it and if I did get any with shorter legs, show them, but don't breed them. She sent me a stunning trio of birds. There were things that needed work, but not size or type. I didn't have them long enough to address leg length. Reds haven't been shown to the standard for that long because they were late comers to the party. Reds were farm fowl more than SGs were I suspect. I've looked at Scots Dumpy birds before. They're old and they are often described using adjectives that are used for Dorkings. Things such as boat shaped. I would not be surprised at all if they share genes somewhere.

They found a 'lost' flock to reinvigorate native birds. There are individuals looking into importation for Dorkings. That may solve the problem. Again...it would be nice to know exactly what the problem is and if there really is a problem. I think there is a problem because some of the individuals having low hatch rates, are experienced. When we talk about loss of vigor that can include things like lethal genes becoming concentrated. Chickens have a lot of genes that can have unexpected outcomes. The woman I got my original birds from was certainly an experienced breeder. I'm sure what she told me wasn't a secret.

I also think that this is a breed of chicken that doesn't like the commercial diets. They should maybe go live with hellbender. I think that's the kind of diet they would thrive on. I know when I went from a breeder ration that had animal protein in it to one without and more soy, my fertility dropped. At the time I thought it was my birds. 10 years later, I think the feed was the problem. I'm not prepared to grind meat and bones and pressure cook because I'm just not set up for it But there are things I'm planning to do.

If someone wants to send me a handful Dorkings, I'll have a go at 'em. I've always kinda' liked 'em but just not enough to get involved because I have NO real grasp on them. I've learned more in the last couple days than I ever knew in the past.

Just kidding....I have enough problems!

 

[Vamvakas]

Any suggestions on trying a new breed? I'm going to try out some black Ameraucanas hoping to get atleast a trio from them (I only ordered a couple

) once I get the chicks hopefully this week along with more black Australorps and Naked Necks. But I am thinking about adding a new coop with a new breed, I just need to clear some thorn bushes witch is not going to be fun but oh well..

I'm looking for an American Class breed since I have English and Any Other Class but no American. I want a good heavy dual bird and cold hardy. I've been looking at the Moltted Java and golden laced Wyandotte and like them both.

 

[hellbender]

Any suggestions on trying a new breed? I'm going to try out some black Ameraucanas hoping to get atleast a trio from them (I only ordered a couple

) once I get the chicks hopefully this week along with more black Australorps and Naked Necks. But I am thinking about adding a new coop with a new breed, I just need to clear some thorn bushes witch is not going to be fun but oh well..

I'm looking for an American Class breed since I have English and Any Other Class but no American. I want a good heavy dual bird and cold hardy. I've been looking at the Moltted Java and golden laced Wyandotte and like them both.

First..get a couple goats. (can't have just one). They will take care of the thorn bushes PDQ then your family can have kleftiko and a well cleared place for your new breed of chickens!

 

[pigsflyacres]

If someone wants to send me a handful Dorkings, I'll have a go at 'em. I've always kinda' liked 'em but just not enough to get involved because I have NO real grasp on them. I've learned more in the last couple days than I ever knew in the past.

Yeah...it got a bit deep in Dorkings! I could have moved it but I thought I might get more useful conversation here. Not interested in Roos and 'fluffy butt'. I think that is often how breeds get into trouble. Culling hard I think may solve a lot of problems. And using stock that might not look too pretty but has something to offer in the way of gaminess. I wont tolerate a cock that is aggressive to me, but one that shows more gaminess is not a problem. Dorkings are so docile I think that sometimes those more rude cock birds get weeded out. They bring something to the breeding pen used judiciously. I want a bird that struts his stuff. I just want them to keep their macho behavior to their kind. Otherwise their name is Sunday Dinner.

When my son was little he wanted the chickens to have names I explained we didn't name the chickens. He insisted. So we named several of them. There was Sunday Dinner and Monday Dinner. Friday Dinner was going to be tasty. He got the point. Now he said something again and since he's older and watches South Park, I told him to explain to his girlfriend that they could only be named Kenny. He laughed and said I had a bad sense of humor.

hellbender maybe someday you'll have some Dorkings. I bet they would do well with you. I think they would appreciate your cooking.

 

[3riverschick]

Any suggestions on trying a new breed? I'm going to try out some black Ameraucanas hoping to get atleast a trio from them (I only ordered a couple

) once I get the chicks hopefully this week along with more black Australorps and Naked Necks. But I am thinking about adding a new coop with a new breed, I just need to clear some thorn bushes witch is not going to be fun but oh well..

I'm looking for an American Class breed since I have English and Any Other Class but no American. I want a good heavy dual bird and cold hardy. I've been looking at the Moltted Java and golden laced Wyandotte and like them both.

How about the Auburn Java? It' a rare variety which was recessive in the Black. Needs more people to love it.
http://www.rarebreedauctions.com/au...n-java-chicks-1-2-weeks-old&auction_id=114500

http://www.javabreedersofamerica.com/javas/auburn/
Wow, this is great article. So clear and concise.

Best,
Karen

 

[hellbender]

Yeah...it got a bit deep in Dorkings! I could have moved it but I thought I might get more useful conversation here. Not interested in Roos and 'fluffy butt'. I think that is often how breeds get into trouble. Culling hard I think may solve a lot of problems. And using stock that might not look too pretty but has something to offer in the way of gaminess. I wont tolerate a cock that is aggressive to me, but one that shows more gaminess is not a problem. Dorkings are so docile I think that sometimes those more rude cock birds get weeded out. They bring something to the breeding pen used judiciously. I want a bird that struts his stuff. I just want them to keep their macho behavior to their kind. Otherwise their name is Sunday Dinner.

When my son was little he wanted the chickens to have names I explained we didn't name the chickens. He insisted. So we named several of them. There was Sunday Dinner and Monday Dinner. Friday Dinner was going to be tasty. He got the point. Now he said something again and since he's older and watches South Park, I told him to explain to his girlfriend that they could only be named Kenny. He laughed and said I had a bad sense of humor.

hellbender maybe someday you'll have some Dorkings. I bet they would do well with you. I think they would appreciate your cooking.

I honestly don't even know how many colors they come in. I do know they lay a white egg and some have longer legs than others. I would have room for a few if I could talk my son into them. The new facility is his 'baby' and we have talked about a bunch of breeds to play with while working on the SOP RED NNs but Dorkings have never even come up in conversation.

I wouldn't even know where to get good ones. Never even seen a pic of a red one ...seems like everyone os pushing the silver colored ones.

Perhaps you can give me some information...(NO BS)!!!!

 

[unkadan]

Any suggestions on trying a new breed? I'm going to try out some black Ameraucanas hoping to get atleast a trio from them (I only ordered a couple

) once I get the chicks hopefully this week along with more black Australorps and Naked Necks. But I am thinking about adding a new coop with a new breed, I just need to clear some thorn bushes witch is not going to be fun but oh well..

I'm looking for an American Class breed since I have English and Any Other Class but no American. I want a good heavy dual bird and cold hardy. I've been looking at the Moltted Java and golden laced Wyandotte and like them both.

Consider the White Chantecler, a breed that is on the endangered list, yet there are a few excellent strains available in the US. Cold weather birds that nothing will compete with, fast growing for both production and meat. Excellent club that provides support and insight.