Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

This is a general response to several posts by different people. The existing colors of Java's need help, not someones mistake/project. The cuckoo Dorking should never have been admitted to the APA Standard and they are pretty much gone now anyway.
At the qualifying meet there was only two that should have passed and the rest were culls. Craig may have some, but that is about it.

The Cuckoo Dorking is one of the reasons the Standard Committee is reviewing the current rules. They will be changed and one of the big things will be that the APA will be looking for long term commitment from all those participating in the qualifying process. ....and most importantly everyone involved will have to be an APA member. The days of mobilizing online and getting a bird qualified and then you and the bird disappearing is coming to an end. Some people just want to make their mark and then they are off raising pot bellied pigs or what ever else they move on to.

.......

You are not going to resurrect this breed overnight, but don't believe a lot of the things you see posted about them by people that are only "online breeders" with no hands on experience. I have handled and evaluated Kims birds (Capayvalleychick) over a couple of years and there has been a vast improvement, so I believe she is on the right track, but as noted....I don't think there is a quick fix for any breed that has gone down hill. While some of these stories you read online sound really cool, it is just a story. The lethal gene in the Japanese (short legged bird) and the rest of them are in breeds with extreme shortness of legs. As far has using longer legged birds for breeding, that is just to achieve a better position for the male to help insure fertilization. We do that with Cornish.

Walt

Amen 2 and 3 times over concerning non-standard colors and color entry to the SOP.

I was just on the Brahma FB page, and was very disappointed that 1/2 of the posts were for scrawny looking Black and Buff-laced Brahma-ish culls. What a disservice to Brahmas!

Cochins, Plymouth Rocks, Wyandottes and Leghorns--these are the only large fowl breeds that have been able to maintain 4 of more varieties over any length of time with any sort of quality. A long time ago, you might have been able to add Polish and Hamburgs to that list. However, that was also a different time with more people doing the work of breeding poultry well. One, two, maybe three varieties--that's about it, and three is pushing it. There is no value in color, if that color is draped on a sub-par bird, and a walk through the major shows will reveal more and more large fowl of sub-par quality. RIR's are fairing poorly, but folks want to show "imported" Spangled Orpingtons, which are neither good Orpingtons nor well spangled birds. If the goal is to have strong fowl, the number of varieties must be limited, or the effort s are overly diluted. There's absolutely no way around it. Period.

Dorkings are a perfect example. All of the hullaballoo to get Reds and Cuckoos into the Standard, but who cares? Neither is important historically, at least you can kind of make an argument for Reds. However, now they're eclipsing SG's, and the SG's were at least unique; outside of OEGs, the Silver Duckwing pattern "belonged" to the Dorking. Now, with the focus on Reds, they're just not as refined as the Light Brown Leghorns, who will always own that color. Cuckoos are worthless--period. Nothing Cuckoo stays around for long, and why should they? They're naught but sloppy barring. The only cuckoo bird that has made it is the Dominique, and that is just barely. The real tragedy is that while everyone was focused on Reds and Cuckoos, the traditional colors were falling away, and the old strains were dying out. That's when you know you're not taking care of a breed. Dorking breeders are quick to bla-bla about "building the barn before painting it", but they're a bit poo at following their own advice. Had they done so, we'd still have quality Dorkings hanging around.

Walt, I'm all about tightening up the gates. The last thing any breed needs is another variety, and I believe that most breeds need about 1/2 the varieties they have. Standard-bred Hamburgs are quietly slipping off the map, and people are worried about Legbars and getting more Marans colors into the Standard. That's just folly--silly and folly.

Thank you, everyone, for the kind words concerning my White Dorkings, but please bear in mind that they are a work in progress. Because of the aforementioned sloppy breeding and poor focus, I have had to rebuild them from the bottom up, and in blatant honesty, I think that they're still closer to the bottom that they are to the top. I'm glad folks are happy to start up with them, but every time I ship out a box of chicks I'm hoping that they get one trio, or perhaps, two pair that are even worth looking at. They're delicious in the pot, at least.

I don't know what is going on with certain groups of SGs; it's a real puzzle. However, I do not believe that SGs in the US are overly in-bred; it's just not a reality.

Thoughts on variety outcrossing: If you outcross to whites and then breed the F1s together, you'll get a whole range of Duckwing patterned birds. I didn't raise them out, and I don't know where they'll go, but you'll get them by the dozens. In the Whites, we have strong fertility and strong hatchability. Now we just need size, weight, length, combs, and purity of white......can you say in the year 2020....
 
Everyone wants to see Buff Orps, and Blue Cochins. Must be the round and fluffy thing, LOL.


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I love the Black Java and leaned blacks but I have black Austalorps.. No more pure black birds for me.. Time for a new color, I don't like white chickens either.

Ron, I trolled my family by saying I was going to build the new coop for "black Naked Necks" and they were mad LOL! My family loves NN but I took it to next level and they got sick of them. They want to see Buff Orps or Blue Cochins..
No disrespect to family but you need to do what YOU like or the whole thing will suffer.
 
Don't you notice something strange about the sons hands in that photo Karen. That bird is not as big as she is saying it is and even if it was a raccoon would be eating it a hot second. There is no way a chicken is going to protect the flock against a Raccoon, fox, etc.

She ...like a lot of others online just has a good story.....and that's all it is.It is either photoshopped or he has his arm outstretched to right in front of the camera. if you look at the guys hands you can see they are huge too.

In photography I believe that effect is called "foreshortening".

w.


From long personal experience, not even the biggest Asians are going to successfully defend against even a half grown 'coon. I hunted 'coon from childhood right up 'til somewhere in my mid 50s. They are one of premier fighting machines in the woods.

Any chicken would have just about as much chance with a Wolverine as the 'coon and that's a fact.

You can take this post to the bank because I seriously doubt any others on this site has had MORE experience watching 'coons fight, Even when wounded (especially when wounded) they are more that enough for some dogs, especially those out for their first hunt!

More than once I've seen a small tough dog have to save a big ol' yearling pup from getting his ears torn to shreds...

So..point is....don't believe any chicken has a shot in #### against a 'coon...Most chickens, cocks or hens, wouldn't go near a dead one!!!!!!!
 
I am so tired of seeing varieties in every breed having the blue gene added and then "oh wow!" something new and different
everyone has to try their hand at. It's "blue!"
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It doesn't breed true and no wonder folks get frustrated at all the non
perfect birds which hatch out from their lovely"blue" breeders!
rant.gif

Then there is the barring gene! Oh, Let's go put the barring gene on every non barred variety in chickendom! Oh how cute
they look! What's wrong with plain basic colors? Oh wait, let's add blue and barring to a variety! Wow! We can call them a new
breed , the "Kaleidoscope" chicken. They are doing this in Marans The Blue Golden Salmon, the rarest of all Marans colors
It's blue added to wildtype. To what point? So rare it will never be anything other than eye candy.
idunno.gif
But what
happens to the culls from such a project in any breed? If they are sold, it pollutes that breed's gene pool with 1/2 bred birds.
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Oh my head hurts!
Karen
 
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I have silver penciled wyandottes and someone said they were a hen line in coloring, can someone explain? (I am not even sure I phrased the question correctly.) I am totally ignorant of genetic terms and codes.
 
I have silver penciled wyandottes and someone said they were a hen line in coloring, can someone explain? (I am not even sure I phrased the question correctly.) I am totally ignorant of genetic terms and codes.


Just means the males won't be up to par. Must be double mated if you want great males AND great females.
 

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