Are you opening the 02 vent on top of your hatcher? I forgot once and all mine died in the shell from 02 deprivation. The temp, 02 and humidity has to be right. Good luck
Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II
- Thread starter juststruttin
- Start date
One of my Genesis 1588 incubators was way off. I had to set the temperature to 102 to get the eggs to 99.5. I replaced the control unit and it works correctly now. I you find that the temperature is off have it fixed by GQF. It makes a big difference
The last thing changed us usually the culprit. If you changed the incubator then the incubator is likely running low for temps.
- May 19, 2009
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The Science of Feeding Grit to Poultry.
I posted this in parts of several threads so combining it all here
to make it easier to find. Will be adding to it as research** continues.
What I learned: There is a science to feeding grit. It is more than just supplying stones to birds to help grind their feed because they don't have teeth.
If you are going to raise your hens to be egg layers, then it is important you give them the right granite grit at the right time in their development. Chick grit from 1 thru 3 weeks old. "teenage " size grit from 4 thru 7 weeks old. Adult sized grit from 8 weeks and older. The right grit at the right time will not help them grow faster. It will help them develop a larger and better functioning gizzard. I have been studying this all week. Now the gizzard is vital to proper digestion of the feed. What this means to you is that when the hens reach laying age, their better quality gizzards will cause them to digest their feed better. This will increase your egg yield up to 20%. It also means your hens will eat slightly less feed per dozen eggs than hens raised without grit. Fascinating, huh? I thought so.
Not every grit will do. There are a bunch out there. Grit has 2 functions. It helps grind the feed and it helps deliver calcium to the hen. So with a plethora of different grits wth different composititons out there, what should we choose for best effects. You wouldn't believe the large number of scientific studies done on that topic! But after all is said and done, the best combination once the hen starts laying is adult sized granite grit and also crushed oyster shells. The grit is for the grinding, the oyster shell is for the calcium. OS helps a little in the grinding but gets worn down too quickly by the acids in the chickens gizzard to use oyster shell for grinding alone. The granite has sharp edges which stay sharp a lot longer.
Now if you are raising broilers on all mash only you don't need to worry about grit. It will make a small difference but not enough to worry about. Except..doncha just love it when someone writes that?...except... if you are going to finish your broilers by adding whole grain to their diets. If you do that then you should also add adult sized granite grit to their diet at the same time. That way they will put on more weight in the same time during finishing than if you fed the mash and whole grains without any granite grit.
Did you know that if you put a hollow iron tube capable of supporting between 435 and 520 lbs. in the gizzard of a turkey, the gizzard will completely flatten it? That's the kind of force in that large bird. The gizzard of a chicken contracts about every 19-20 seconds.
I use Gran-I-Grit for my poultry. It is made by North Carolina Granite Company ( website). Comes out of the world's largest open air granite quarry. They have been making it since 1935. They make all three sizes. I get mine at Agway. About 10.00 for 50 lbs. . To learn more:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/products/gran-i-grit-insoluable-crushed-granite
Question: One might argue that the better they digest their food, the faster they grow.
Many people have studied that. To some degree the studies bear this out. However, the difference of rate of growth was so small as to make feeding grit not financially feasible during the growing stages in layers and broilers ( wait, there's more! We feed grit for other important reasons than increased growth!) . In broilers, during the finishing stages, feeding insolvable grit with mash and hard grains resulted in significant gains in weight, well worth adding grit. Feeding mash only with grit during finishing did not result in same weight gains. So it seems the grit was enabling the better digestion of the whole grains , resulting in better weight gain in the finished broilers.
Grit's worth is 2 fold ( 2 very important folds).
1. It helps develop a bigger healthier , stronger gizzard for the laying hens ( don't so much care about this development of a better gizzard in the broilers because they are being butchered anyway. The stronger, healthier gizzard in the laying birds helps digest their feed better resulting in more nutrition being absorbed to make more and better eggs.
2. In broilers, the grit helps digest the whole grains added to their mash during the finishing period. This results in significant weight gain in the finished birds.
--------------------
Grit that is too small for the bird's age and needs simply passes on thru the G.I. tract and does not benefit the bird. This is why sand is not a good idea for chicks. They need "flint grit" , i.e., chick-sized grit with sharp edges which do not wear down easily. Some advocate giving chick flint grit as the first meal ,even writing this will help the chick finish digesting its yolk ( I don't have a 2nd concurring opinion for the latter statement).
Oyster shell is good for providing calcium to the hens for laying. However, it does not do well for supplying grit for digestion because the sharp edges are easily warn away by the acid in the gizzard. This is why we feed both insoluble grit and oyster shell to laying hens.
None of the calcium supplying substances we could call and use as "grit" are best for both supplying grit and calcium. Supplying high magnesium* limestone grit as grit for chicks is actually very harmful. For older birds, it is much better to use insoluble grit plus either oyster shell or cockle shell for calcium. Tho research proves oyster shell is the better choice.
* low magnesium limestone grit can be used to advantage in certain poultry areas. However, the use of straight insoluble grit for chick plus combination of insoluble grit and oyster shell has been proven scientifically superior so why stress using the limestone grit?.
** Here is my reference. A wonderful, pithy little book . Yes, it's a bibliography however this one includes abstracts ! of the biblio cites. A virtual Cliff Notes of Grit in Poultry! And published in 1960! Thank you HathiTrust Digital Library !!
Grit for poultry: bibliography and abstract.
Author: Branion, Hugh Douglas, 1906-
Published: New York, Granite Grit Institute of America [1960]
84 p. 28 cm.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89043737196;view=1up;seq=1
This text is keyword searchable. Enlightening to search by breed name.
Best,
Karen
I posted this in parts of several threads so combining it all here
to make it easier to find. Will be adding to it as research** continues.
What I learned: There is a science to feeding grit. It is more than just supplying stones to birds to help grind their feed because they don't have teeth.
If you are going to raise your hens to be egg layers, then it is important you give them the right granite grit at the right time in their development. Chick grit from 1 thru 3 weeks old. "teenage " size grit from 4 thru 7 weeks old. Adult sized grit from 8 weeks and older. The right grit at the right time will not help them grow faster. It will help them develop a larger and better functioning gizzard. I have been studying this all week. Now the gizzard is vital to proper digestion of the feed. What this means to you is that when the hens reach laying age, their better quality gizzards will cause them to digest their feed better. This will increase your egg yield up to 20%. It also means your hens will eat slightly less feed per dozen eggs than hens raised without grit. Fascinating, huh? I thought so.
Not every grit will do. There are a bunch out there. Grit has 2 functions. It helps grind the feed and it helps deliver calcium to the hen. So with a plethora of different grits wth different composititons out there, what should we choose for best effects. You wouldn't believe the large number of scientific studies done on that topic! But after all is said and done, the best combination once the hen starts laying is adult sized granite grit and also crushed oyster shells. The grit is for the grinding, the oyster shell is for the calcium. OS helps a little in the grinding but gets worn down too quickly by the acids in the chickens gizzard to use oyster shell for grinding alone. The granite has sharp edges which stay sharp a lot longer.
Now if you are raising broilers on all mash only you don't need to worry about grit. It will make a small difference but not enough to worry about. Except..doncha just love it when someone writes that?...except... if you are going to finish your broilers by adding whole grain to their diets. If you do that then you should also add adult sized granite grit to their diet at the same time. That way they will put on more weight in the same time during finishing than if you fed the mash and whole grains without any granite grit.
Did you know that if you put a hollow iron tube capable of supporting between 435 and 520 lbs. in the gizzard of a turkey, the gizzard will completely flatten it? That's the kind of force in that large bird. The gizzard of a chicken contracts about every 19-20 seconds.
I use Gran-I-Grit for my poultry. It is made by North Carolina Granite Company ( website). Comes out of the world's largest open air granite quarry. They have been making it since 1935. They make all three sizes. I get mine at Agway. About 10.00 for 50 lbs. . To learn more:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/products/gran-i-grit-insoluable-crushed-granite
Question: One might argue that the better they digest their food, the faster they grow.
Many people have studied that. To some degree the studies bear this out. However, the difference of rate of growth was so small as to make feeding grit not financially feasible during the growing stages in layers and broilers ( wait, there's more! We feed grit for other important reasons than increased growth!) . In broilers, during the finishing stages, feeding insolvable grit with mash and hard grains resulted in significant gains in weight, well worth adding grit. Feeding mash only with grit during finishing did not result in same weight gains. So it seems the grit was enabling the better digestion of the whole grains , resulting in better weight gain in the finished broilers.
Grit's worth is 2 fold ( 2 very important folds).
1. It helps develop a bigger healthier , stronger gizzard for the laying hens ( don't so much care about this development of a better gizzard in the broilers because they are being butchered anyway. The stronger, healthier gizzard in the laying birds helps digest their feed better resulting in more nutrition being absorbed to make more and better eggs.
2. In broilers, the grit helps digest the whole grains added to their mash during the finishing period. This results in significant weight gain in the finished birds.
--------------------
Grit that is too small for the bird's age and needs simply passes on thru the G.I. tract and does not benefit the bird. This is why sand is not a good idea for chicks. They need "flint grit" , i.e., chick-sized grit with sharp edges which do not wear down easily. Some advocate giving chick flint grit as the first meal ,even writing this will help the chick finish digesting its yolk ( I don't have a 2nd concurring opinion for the latter statement).
Oyster shell is good for providing calcium to the hens for laying. However, it does not do well for supplying grit for digestion because the sharp edges are easily warn away by the acid in the gizzard. This is why we feed both insoluble grit and oyster shell to laying hens.
None of the calcium supplying substances we could call and use as "grit" are best for both supplying grit and calcium. Supplying high magnesium* limestone grit as grit for chicks is actually very harmful. For older birds, it is much better to use insoluble grit plus either oyster shell or cockle shell for calcium. Tho research proves oyster shell is the better choice.
* low magnesium limestone grit can be used to advantage in certain poultry areas. However, the use of straight insoluble grit for chick plus combination of insoluble grit and oyster shell has been proven scientifically superior so why stress using the limestone grit?.
** Here is my reference. A wonderful, pithy little book . Yes, it's a bibliography however this one includes abstracts ! of the biblio cites. A virtual Cliff Notes of Grit in Poultry! And published in 1960! Thank you HathiTrust Digital Library !!
Grit for poultry: bibliography and abstract.
Author: Branion, Hugh Douglas, 1906-
Published: New York, Granite Grit Institute of America [1960]
84 p. 28 cm.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89043737196;view=1up;seq=1
This text is keyword searchable. Enlightening to search by breed name.
Best,
Karen
Last edited:
- May 19, 2009
- 8,453
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Here's just one interesting study I found. No, I am not going to clutter the list
by copying and pasting studies. I just thought this one was quite noteworthy:
The book is alphabetical by author name. Page 13:
Brook, H. T., 1957. Insoluble grit cuts feeding costs. Modern Poultry
Keeping, May 16, 1957. p. 5-7.
"Light Sussex cockerel chicks were fed chick meal with and
without flint grit. The average weight at 8 weeks for the group
receiving no grit was 35.92 oz., for those fed grit 37.92 oz.
The weight of the gizzards of the no-grit fed birds averaged
12 grammes, for the birds receiving grit 18 grammes. The muscles
of the grit fed gizzards were much more healthy in appearance; the
no-grit gizzard muscles were flabby and of a dull color. The linings
of the grit fed gizzards were thicker, tougher and free from erosion;
those of the no-grit fed gizzards were easily torn and showed definite
areas of gizzard erosion.
In the absence of grit the gizzard tends to retain fibrous
material so that after a time, there is a build-up, causing a partial
or complete impaction."
Gizzard erosion was quite a concern 60 yrs. ago. I am sure they have
it figured out now in the modern poultry feeds.However, it is interesting
to see the part insoluable grit played in solving the problem.
Best,
Karen
by copying and pasting studies. I just thought this one was quite noteworthy:
The book is alphabetical by author name. Page 13:
Brook, H. T., 1957. Insoluble grit cuts feeding costs. Modern Poultry
Keeping, May 16, 1957. p. 5-7.
"Light Sussex cockerel chicks were fed chick meal with and
without flint grit. The average weight at 8 weeks for the group
receiving no grit was 35.92 oz., for those fed grit 37.92 oz.
The weight of the gizzards of the no-grit fed birds averaged
12 grammes, for the birds receiving grit 18 grammes. The muscles
of the grit fed gizzards were much more healthy in appearance; the
no-grit gizzard muscles were flabby and of a dull color. The linings
of the grit fed gizzards were thicker, tougher and free from erosion;
those of the no-grit fed gizzards were easily torn and showed definite
areas of gizzard erosion.
In the absence of grit the gizzard tends to retain fibrous
material so that after a time, there is a build-up, causing a partial
or complete impaction."
Gizzard erosion was quite a concern 60 yrs. ago. I am sure they have
it figured out now in the modern poultry feeds.However, it is interesting
to see the part insoluable grit played in solving the problem.
Best,
Karen
Last edited:
what is cockle shell?
Last edited:
- May 19, 2009
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It's kinda like a mussel shell but does a bit better job than mussel , yet not as good as oyster shell .
Cockle is a softer shell and when in contact with the acid in the gizzard does not maintain its
sharp edges quite as long as the flintier oyster shell.
Image from museumoftheearth.org
Best,
Karen
Last edited:
anyone ever use cuttle bones for chickens?It's kinda like a mussel shell but does a bit better job than mussel , yet not as good as oyster shell . Cockle is a softer shell and when in contact with the acid in the gizzard does not maintain its sharp edges quite as long as the flintier oyster shell.
- May 19, 2009
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https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/850888/can-you-feed-chickens-cuttle-fish-bones
Post 7 and 8 of 12.
Best,
Karen
awesome! Thanks!
I would think that except that the ones that are successfully hatching are hatching either a day early or right on time.
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