Heritage Meat Birds

[Chickenheadmate]

Thanks, that was very good information.

 

[Kabootar]

I am glad it helped.

 

[TheRealCliffordWilliams]

What breed was that?

That was one of the Delawares. I got 10 roosters from Tractor Supply website for $15 including shipping, what a steal!

 

[TheRealCliffordWilliams]

The meat from the heritage birds is tougher, but not in an unpleasant way if you know how to cook. I was worried that the "tough, stringy texture" that people warn of would make these birds only suitable for stewing or braising, but have found them fantastic fried and roasted as well.
Eating the dark meat truly accentuates how spongy the cornish x legs are - hardly dark meat at all! In contrast, the legs on the heritage birds are longer and less round, with distinct muscle groups. I was worried that there would be more tendons and connective tissue but have found that is not the case - if anything there is less connective tissue getting stuck between my teeth when I eat a drumstick or thigh.
The breasts are similar in flavour to a cornish breast but the muscle fibers are more grouped...the meat falls apart and melts in your mouth like a nice pork chop, instead of just being the soft juicy sponge that I have always known chicken to be.
My favorite aspect of these heritage birds has been the deep, true chicken flavor that is missing from the cornish x. It is almost like a beefy turkey flavor, much deeper than I anticipated, and the broth made with the necks, head, feet, gizzard, liver, heart, and backs has been the best chicken broth I have ever made. This broth has incredibly deep chicken flavor and when reduced to about 1/4 sets to a delightful jelly consistency that has been fantastic served cold as a terrine.
I don't know if I will ever raise cornish x (maybe) but I will definitely be raising more heritage meat birds.

I free ranged them on grass and clover and rainforest, and fed corn, oats, barley, soy, and sunflower seed. If that's not nice I don't know what is.

 

[Kabootar]

The meat from the heritage birds is tougher, but not in an unpleasant way if you know how to cook. I was worried that the "tough, stringy texture" that people warn of would make these birds only suitable for stewing or braising, but have found them fantastic fried and roasted as well.
Eating the dark meat truly accentuates how spongy the cornish x legs are - hardly dark meat at all! In contrast, the legs on the heritage birds are longer and less round, with distinct muscle groups. I was worried that there would be more tendons and connective tissue but have found that is not the case - if anything there is less connective tissue getting stuck between my teeth when I eat a drumstick or thigh.
The breasts are similar in flavour to a cornish breast but the muscle fibers are more grouped...the meat falls apart and melts in your mouth like a nice pork chop, instead of just being the soft juicy sponge that I have always known chicken to be.
My favorite aspect of these heritage birds has been the deep, true chicken flavor that is missing from the cornish x. It is almost like a beefy turkey flavor, much deeper than I anticipated, and the broth made with the necks, head, feet, gizzard, liver, heart, and backs has been the best chicken broth I have ever made. This broth has incredibly deep chicken flavor and when reduced to about 1/4 sets to a delightful jelly consistency that has been fantastic served cold as a terrine.
I don't know if I will ever raise cornish x (maybe) but I will definitely be raising more heritage meat birds.

I free ranged them on grass and clover and rainforest, and fed corn, oats, barley, soy, and sunflower seed. If that's not nice I don't know what is.

You are correct about the flavour. Older the bird gets more flavour it accumulates in his flesh, but on the reverse the older birds are tough. The reason why the Cornish cross flesh is spongy and flavourless is because it does nothing but sit and eat the same food all it's life.

That's where caponization and poulardization comes in play. A capon is not concerned with pecking order fights, it's not mating, it's not nervous like a rooster, it's not chasing after hens etc. It just eats and minds it's business. That's why a capon is more tender, toothsome and flavorful. It's just as true with any species of livestock, whether it is a steer, hog or wether.

 

[Chickenheadmate]

That was one of the Delawares. I got 10 roosters from Tractor Supply website for $15 including shipping, what a steal!

No kidding.

 

[Kabootar]

I free ranged them on grass and clover and rainforest, and fed corn, oats, barley, soy, and sunflower seed. If that's not nice I don't know what is.

Grass is one of the staples of free ranging chickens, they do eat some Egyptian Clover in the winter and spring, but we don't grow it for chickens, we grow it for our buffaloes, they just eat some anyway. We grow our own feed for poultry. The main idea of keeping backyard poultry in our country is that you don't buy commercial feed. The government publishes recipes for chicken feed which includes stuff that can be locally grown. We feed a mix that consists 10% each of Corn, oat, wheat and flaxseed, 20% each of sunflower seeds and peas and the remaining 20% is equal parts of different types of millets plus sorghum. We take this mix like everyone else here to a mill who turn it into pellets or crumbs or mash. I never liked mash, it should be renamed as 'mess'.

We have calculated that the total protein content in my mix is little more than 20% and we are very satisfied with it. Apart from this we supplement their feed which treats like confrey, black soldier fly larvae, duckweed, buttermilk, whey, compost pile, vegetables like pumpkins, damaged fruits like strangler fig, mango, litchi, guava etc from our orchard etc.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One more thing to remember, NEVER HATCH FROM PULLET EGGS.

Couple of questions for learning purposes.
Why not and how old should the hen be to hatch from her?

I'll give my perspective on this. My goals are different from a lot of people on here. I raise my dual purpose for meat for us to eat, not to market. There are only two of us, I get two meals out of a fairly small pullet or hen. I like the size of a good cockerel but the practical aspect of that is that I get chicken for lunch when we eat a cockerel. I also play with egg shell color and feather color/pattern genetics. I breed for some behaviors. I like broody hens, most of mine go broody. If a hen or rooster disrupts the peace and tranquility of my flock they just volunteered for dinner duty. The more criteria you have the harder it becomes.

I hatch from pullet eggs. When I do, my hatch rate often isn't as good as with hen eggs. I hardly ever lose a chick that hatches. When I do it is often one that hatched from a small pullet egg. For an egg to hatch the egg has to be right. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. It's not just the physical things like double yolks, shell-less or thin-shelled eggs or eggs with shells so hard a chick can't hatch, things you often read about on here why pullets can lay weird eggs. There is other stuff involved. The yolk/egg white proportion needs to be close to right, the white should not be too thick or too thin. Correct porosity. The egg needs to be fertile. It helps for the egg to be laid in a nest instead of dropped from the root so it cracks. There are a lot of things that can cause a pullet egg to not hatch. To me the surprise is that so many of then actually get it right from the start.

The eggs are small so the chicks will be small. The chicks may not be as robust as larger chicks hatched from larger eggs. I think that's why if I lose one it probably came from a pullet egg. I don't lose many chicks. With most of my broods, none. If I hatch 20 chicks I generally raise 20 chicks. Mine are dual purpose, I'm not raising them on an industrial scale. Like anybody that deals with living animals I do sometimes deal with dead animals.

I find that if I wait for a pullet to have been laying for about a month before I hatch her eggs these differences as far as hatchability and survivability pretty much go away. The pullet has gotten the kinks out of her internal egg-making factory and the eggs though still "small" have increased in size. The chick are still a little small to start with.

I have not done a side by side comparison as to whether chicks that hatch small from pullet eggs catch up with their larger siblings as the grow. The genetics are the same, that doesn't change. For my purposes it doesn't matter. It might for yours.

One specific case I'll mention. I needed to hatch so I would not run out of meat in the freezer, so I included eggs from two pullets less than a month old with the adult eggs. I could tell the difference in their eggs because of shell color. And they were pullet eggs by size. I got five chicks out of five eggs from one pullet. They all survived. I got zero chicks from six eggs from the other pullet, none of them even started to develop. I think it was because she was not mature enough to squat for the rooster and he did not chase her down. The eggs looked fine but with pullet eggs it could have been something I could not see. The next time I hatched eggs her's were fine, a couple of months later.

I'm not going to read back to try to determine which kind of chickens you are trying to breed and hatch eggs. I figure your why is for meat. The commercial egg laying operations control when their pullets start to lay, partly by breeding but mostly by manipulating lights. These are the eggs the unfortunate ones that buy egg get. They typically delay egg laying for a few weeks, I've read around week 23 for at least some, so they get past the initial problems with pullet eggs so the eggs they lay are more valuable. It also gives their pullet's bodies a chance to mature more before they start laying so a health benefit. The problems with pullet eggs are a real thing, not just for hatching.

The hens that lay the hatching eggs for the Cornish X probably lay about 150 eggs a year. They are expensive to feed and the eggs have the same genetics for fast meat production as they will if they wait a year to start hatching those eggs. I cannot envision them waiting a year to start hatching those eggs. I don't have a lot of knowledge of their internal operations in that regard but to me that would be a huge waste.

My goal is to butcher my dual purpose cockerels at 23 weeks of age. That suits my goals. When I am evaluating which cockerel to keep and breed, I look at where they are at 23 weeks. I have to balance my other criteria but that is when I make my choice. It's not that important to me where they are at 15 weeks, 40 weeks, or a year old. That's not when I butcher them.

For some people's goals it will be better to wait. I'm not arguing that at all. You need to consider your goals, not mine or anyone else's. I don't know what is best for you, I often suggest trial and error. Try it and see for yourself. Worst comes to worst you can eat your mistakes as long as you don't make too many of them.

 

[Molpet]

Grass is one of the staples of free ranging chickens, they do eat some Egyptian Clover in the winter and spring, but we don't grow it for chickens, we grow it for our buffaloes, they just eat some anyway. We grow our own feed for poultry. The main idea of keeping backyard poultry in our country is that you don't buy commercial feed. The government publishes recipes for chicken feed which includes stuff that can be locally grown. We feed a mix that consists 10% each of Corn, oat, wheat and flaxseed, 20% each of sunflower seeds and peas and the remaining 20% is equal parts of different types of millets plus sorghum. We take this mix like everyone else here to a mill who turn it into pellets or crumbs or mash. I never liked mash, it should be renamed as 'mess'.

We have calculated that the total protein content in my mix is little more than 20% and we are very satisfied with it. Apart from this we supplement their feed which treats like confrey, black soldier fly larvae, duckweed, buttermilk, whey, compost pile, vegetables like pumpkins, damaged fruits like strangler fig, mango, litchi, guava etc from our orchard etc.

Interesting on your feed ingredients. Several people have been looking for a formula for homemade feed.
I looked into buying ingredients and it cost more here than buying premade.
I buy a mash from a local farmer. I ferment it overnight so the fines stick to the bigger pieces.

 

[Kabootar]

One more thing to remember, NEVER HATCH FROM PULLET EGGS.

Couple of questions for learning purposes.
Why not and how old should the hen be to hatch from her?

I'll give my perspective on this. My goals are different from a lot of people on here. I raise my dual purpose for meat for us to eat, not to market. There are only two of us, I get two meals out of a fairly small pullet or hen. I like the size of a good cockerel but the practical aspect of that is that I get chicken for lunch when we eat a cockerel. I also play with egg shell color and feather color/pattern genetics. I breed for some behaviors. I like broody hens, most of mine go broody. If a hen or rooster disrupts the peace and tranquility of my flock they just volunteered for dinner duty. The more criteria you have the harder it becomes.

I hatch from pullet eggs. When I do, my hatch rate often isn't as good as with hen eggs. I hardly ever lose a chick that hatches. When I do it is often one that hatched from a small pullet egg. For an egg to hatch the egg has to be right. There are a lot of things that can go wrong. It's not just the physical things like double yolks, shell-less or thin-shelled eggs or eggs with shells so hard a chick can't hatch, things you often read about on here why pullets can lay weird eggs. There is other stuff involved. The yolk/egg white proportion needs to be close to right, the white should not be too thick or too thin. Correct porosity. The egg needs to be fertile. It helps for the egg to be laid in a nest instead of dropped from the root so it cracks. There are a lot of things that can cause a pullet egg to not hatch. To me the surprise is that so many of then actually get it right from the start.

The eggs are small so the chicks will be small. The chicks may not be as robust as larger chicks hatched from larger eggs. I think that's why if I lose one it probably came from a pullet egg. I don't lose many chicks. With most of my broods, none. If I hatch 20 chicks I generally raise 20 chicks. Mine are dual purpose, I'm not raising them on an industrial scale. Like anybody that deals with living animals I do sometimes deal with dead animals.

I find that if I wait for a pullet to have been laying for about a month before I hatch her eggs these differences as far as hatchability and survivability pretty much go away. The pullet has gotten the kinks out of her internal egg-making factory and the eggs though still "small" have increased in size. The chick are still a little small to start with.

I have not done a side by side comparison as to whether chicks that hatch small from pullet eggs catch up with their larger siblings as the grow. The genetics are the same, that doesn't change. For my purposes it doesn't matter. It might for yours.

One specific case I'll mention. I needed to hatch so I would not run out of meat in the freezer, so I included eggs from two pullets less than a month old with the adult eggs. I could tell the difference in their eggs because of shell color. And they were pullet eggs by size. I got five chicks out of five eggs from one pullet. They all survived. I got zero chicks from six eggs from the other pullet, none of them even started to develop. I think it was because she was not mature enough to squat for the rooster and he did not chase her down. The eggs looked fine but with pullet eggs it could have been something I could not see. The next time I hatched eggs her's were fine, a couple of months later.

I'm not going to read back to try to determine which kind of chickens you are trying to breed and hatch eggs. I figure your why is for meat. The commercial egg laying operations control when their pullets start to lay, partly by breeding but mostly by manipulating lights. These are the eggs the unfortunate ones that buy egg get. They typically delay egg laying for a few weeks, I've read around week 23 for at least some, so they get past the initial problems with pullet eggs so the eggs they lay are more valuable. It also gives their pullet's bodies a chance to mature more before they start laying so a health benefit. The problems with pullet eggs are a real thing, not just for hatching.

The hens that lay the hatching eggs for the Cornish X probably lay about 150 eggs a year. They are expensive to feed and the eggs have the same genetics for fast meat production as they will if they wait a year to start hatching those eggs. I cannot envision them waiting a year to start hatching those eggs. I don't have a lot of knowledge of their internal operations in that regard but to me that would be a huge waste.

My goal is to butcher my dual purpose cockerels at 23 weeks of age. That suits my goals. When I am evaluating which cockerel to keep and breed, I look at where they are at 23 weeks. I have to balance my other criteria but that is when I make my choice. It's not that important to me where they are at 15 weeks, 40 weeks, or a year old. That's not when I butcher them.

For some people's goals it will be better to wait. I'm not arguing that at all. You need to consider your goals, not mine or anyone else's. I don't know what is best for you, I often suggest trial and error. Try it and see for yourself. Worst comes to worst you can eat your mistakes as long as you don't make too many of them.

When a person seeks our advice, we endeavour to advise according to the best of our knowledge and experience. However we do acknowledge that the person seeking advice is also the person who is going to carry feed and water to his flock in Sun, rain and snow. So it's entirely upon him do decide whose advice suites best for his circumstances.

We also love broody hens. We find it difficult to discourage our hens from going broody. What are your best broody hens?