Hey Q9!!! Calling Q9!.....

[gamebirdboy]

with as much as 43% of the southern "whites" owning slaves.

Not true, a small percentage owned slaves, the number is about 10%. Here is the South's social/financial classes.

Subsistence Farmers - Farming to feed their family, not wealthy.
Yeomen - White middle classed farm owners, selling for a profit, but not extremely wealthy.
Plantation Owners - This group owned the slaves, very wealthy and powerful.
Yeomen did not own slaves and made up most of the Confederate armies. So all of those people who didn't own or intend to own slaves fought for them? In a way the United States did invade the Confederacy, they occupied a fort on Confederate land, and were about to send more troops. The Confederates goals were simple, gain a European ally, defend their land, and be recognized as an independent country. Someone earlier said they were going to conquer the U.S. They did not try to take over the U.S. They fought all but two battles on Confederate soil or western territories.​

 

[Spookwriter]

In that same line of reasoning....consider it like a divorce in a marriage.

You can talk to your lawyer, file the papers. Even go live in separate homes.

But it's not a real divorce until the Judge says you're divorced.

 

[gamebirdboy]

mom'sfolly :

It was a civil war. The confederacy was only a country in their eyes, not the world's or the rest of the US. The confederacy was not recognized by a single country, it was not seen a a legitimate country by anyone in the world. The North was fighting to preserve the Union, the South was fighting a rebellion.

So you are saying the Confederate States had no right to secede from a voluntary Union? States entered by choice and should be able to leave by choice. The South was fighting a rebellion, just as in the Revolutionary War. No matter how you look at it our glorious voluntary Union was "preserved" by the U.S. pointing a gun at the South...​

 

[gamebirdboy]

Quote:
So who is the judge? The victorious party???

 

[TM Chickens]

Quote:
Correct.

So who is the Judge of this world? I don't seem to remember any religion who's god says that "thou shalt not break away from another country". My God sure doesn't. And I highly doubt the Flying Spaghetti Monster has anything to say in such cases.

 

[Spookwriter]

Quote:
I'm curious ... Just what fort would that be? Fort Sumter? The fort that was there, on UNION SOIL, BEFORE the confederacy
was even formed? Soil that the confederacy tried to take? Is that the one in question? Isn't that the same one that Lincoln
didn't send more to to BECAUSE he did not want to push a war. He sent SUPPLIES...not men. (and even those supplies were
not allowed to be received by the fort, thanks to the confederate soldiers blocking the port.)

 

[Spookwriter]

Divorce court was an example. I have no ideal of who the
divorce court judge actually is these days.

And I certainly do not know if there is a judge of this world.
I do know the highest court in the United States is called the
United States Supreme Court. I also believe most states have
a state supreme court. Does that help?

I have no ideal who the Flying Spaghetti Monster is?

 

[gamebirdboy]

Quote:
I'm curious ... Just what fort would that be? Fort Sumter? The fort that was there, on UNION SOIL, BEFORE the confederacy
was even formed? Soil that the confederacy tried to take? Is that the one in question? Isn't that the same one that Lincoln
didn't send more to to BECAUSE he did not want to push a war. He sent SUPPLIES...not men. (and even those supplies were
not allowed to be received by the fort, thanks to the confederate soldiers blocking the port.)

When the South seceded Lincoln wouldn't relinquish federal land, I might be mistaken about the supplies/men. They were there before, but they wouldn't leave.

 

[Spookwriter]

Because from the Union point of view, there was no call to leave.
It was a contested issue.

Leaving would of to a degree admitted the Confederacy as a legal
country, with legal rights. This was simply not so.

The US Supreme Court ruled as recently as 2009-2010? on a state
being able to seceed from the union. Texas, and the answer was no.

 

[gamebirdboy]

Quote:
The Supreme Court shouldn't be able to say who can secede. As stated before by Q9 the union was voluntarily formed. So they should be able to leave.