Hey Q9!!! Calling Q9!.....

[Q9]

Quote:
Lee freed his slaves in 1863, voluntarily. He also believed slavery was evil. Grant kept his slaves until the 13th Amendment was passed, I believe, his excuse being "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

 

[FarmerJamie]

Quote:
Lee freed his slaves in 1863, voluntarily. He also believed slavery was evil. Grant kept his slaves until the 13th Amendment was passed, I believe, his excuse being "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Two interesting, facts, what point does that prove? We're trying to say these leaders of the times had good points and their flaws. Lee was not perfect and Grant was not completely imperfect. They were mortal men. This discussion did motivate me to dig out some of my books I haven't read in years. The current image of Lee really didn't develop until around the turn of the century (1900's). As part of this building up of his image came the "the failures weren't his fault" for Confederated losses, which wasn't the current view immediately post-war. the Marble Man, Connelly

 

[Spookwriter]

Can I ask a question of Q9, TM, and any others wishing to answer?

If we accept that the war is over..not asking who won, who lost.
The America Civil War ended 147 years ago.

Can anyone tell me, in their words, how has the South changed since
then? Give us some postive changes. And the negative. Let's all be fair
and look both ways.

No...saying "this" or "that" may have happened had the South won. In
the scope of reality, I now stand before you asking how did this war change
our world as you see it?

Spook

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
North Alabama has become the silicon valley of the south

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Sure.
Negative - the loss of almost universal clear-cut morality, an increase in both trust of and dependence on the Federal government, loss of the sense of being tied to the land, in fact, generally a deterioration in our traditions as well, states' rights are no longer truly respected (see the results of the poll posted earlier - only 26% still believe in secession?!), and increasing influence of Northern and Left-Coast culture. The South is slowly but surely losing its identity as a distinct culture. Small farms vanishing, factory farms taking over. Demonization of the South generally in schools.

Positive - that's hard to think of. Obviously, the abolition of slavery, but aside from that... An increase in industry, I guess, as a direct result of the collapse of the plantation system and less dependence on a few crops. Aside from those, it's difficult to think of anything good that was a direct result of Union victory.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
Sure.
Negative - the loss of almost universal clear-cut morality, an increase in both trust of and dependence on the Federal government, loss of the sense of being tied to the land, in fact, generally a deterioration in our traditions as well, states' rights are no longer truly respected (see the results of the poll posted earlier - only 26% still believe in secession?!), and increasing influence of Northern and Left-Coast culture. The South is slowly but surely losing its identity as a distinct culture. Small farms vanishing, factory farms taking over. Demonization of the South generally in schools.

Positive - that's hard to think of. Obviously, the abolition of slavery, but aside from that... An increase in industry, I guess, as a direct result of the collapse of the plantation system and less dependence on a few crops. Aside from those, it's difficult to think of anything good that was a direct result of Union victory.

Maybe you should lead a new secession movement. Let us know how that works out.

Steve

 

[FarmerJamie]

Quote:
Sure.
Negative - the loss of almost universal clear-cut morality, an increase in both trust of and dependence on the Federal government, loss of the sense of being tied to the land, in fact, generally a deterioration in our traditions as well, states' rights are no longer truly respected (see the results of the poll posted earlier - only 26% still believe in secession?!), and increasing influence of Northern and Left-Coast culture. The South is slowly but surely losing its identity as a distinct culture. Small farms vanishing, factory farms taking over. Demonization of the South generally in schools.

Positive - that's hard to think of. Obviously, the abolition of slavery, but aside from that... An increase in industry, I guess, as a direct result of the collapse of the plantation system and less dependence on a few crops. Aside from those, it's difficult to think of anything good that was a direct result of Union victory.

These things are true all over - Here in the Midwest, I can strongly agree with you on these points. We're treated as "fly-over" country by the elites in this country. Until the advent of the railroads, the Midwest had more regional affinity with the South, rather than New England, at least in the part of Ohio I grew up in.

With the education bent demonizing the South, it goes deeper than that, it really attacking anything traditional or conservation, so it's not just the Southern history being assaulted. I have 3 kids in school, believe me, I see it first hand.

Positives - as a unified country, we won WWII, the Cold War, and put a man on the moon. People from all over the world still scratch and strive to be able to come live in this country.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Sure.
Negative - the loss of almost universal clear-cut morality, an increase in both trust of and dependence on the Federal government, loss of the sense of being tied to the land, in fact, generally a deterioration in our traditions as well, states' rights are no longer truly respected (see the results of the poll posted earlier - only 26% still believe in secession?!), and increasing influence of Northern and Left-Coast culture. The South is slowly but surely losing its identity as a distinct culture. Small farms vanishing, factory farms taking over. Demonization of the South generally in schools.

Positive - that's hard to think of. Obviously, the abolition of slavery, but aside from that... An increase in industry, I guess, as a direct result of the collapse of the plantation system and less dependence on a few crops. Aside from those, it's difficult to think of anything good that was a direct result of Union victory.

Maybe you should lead a new secession movement. Let us know how that works out.

Steve

You saw the polls - 70-odd percent of Americans are blind to their heritage, blind to the Constitution, and blind to one of the only options left to those who care about freedom. A full-fledged state secession is out of the question in most cases - with, of course, the exceptions of New Hampshire and Vermont. Very few people, however, have considered secession on the scale of maybe, say, a few cities.

Would it be easy? NO. Insane amounts of education, difficulty in gaining funds, and constant antagonism from the feds. All the odds are against us.

But I will try. I will do everything possible to educate, and to tear down the lies spilled out by governments, federal, state, and local. I don't expect to be a leader of anything. I'm not a leader. I don't plan on being the next George Washington or Robert E. Lee. Hopefully we won't need another great general. I'm certainly not it if we do need one. I'm that guy who provokes people, who will do everything humanly possible to expose the government's dirty little secrets and outrage the public. Odds are, I'll go down in history as a nobody. But I'll be darned if I sit idly by while this nation self-destructs. If possible, I would love nothing more than to educate enough people to have even a chance at a successful secession. It probably won't happen - I'm a realist and a cynic, so I don't have a lot of trust in the American people at this point. I don't harbor any illusions as to the feasibility of correcting our course, even on a local level. But, God help me, I will try.

You can go on trusting the feds. You don't need to let me know how that works out - I'll be able to see the rotting corpse of a once great country easily enough.

I know you meant that sarcastically. Quite frankly, I do not care whether you find this amusing or if you take it seriously. This country is screwed, and you know it.

 

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
Maybe you should lead a new secession movement. Let us know how that works out.

Steve

You saw the polls - 70-odd percent of Americans are blind to their heritage, blind to the Constitution, and blind to one of the only options left to those who care about freedom. A full-fledged state secession is out of the question in most cases - with, of course, the exceptions of New Hampshire and Vermont. Very few people, however, have considered secession on the scale of maybe, say, a few cities.

Would it be easy? NO. Insane amounts of education, difficulty in gaining funds, and constant antagonism from the feds. All the odds are against us.

But I will try. I will do everything possible to educate, and to tear down the lies spilled out by governments, federal, state, and local. I don't expect to be a leader of anything. I'm not a leader. I don't plan on being the next George Washington or Robert E. Lee. Hopefully we won't need another great general. I'm certainly not it if we do need one. I'm that guy who provokes people, who will do everything humanly possible to expose the government's dirty little secrets and outrage the public. Odds are, I'll go down in history as a nobody. But I'll be darned if I sit idly by while this nation self-destructs. If possible, I would love nothing more than to educate enough people to have even a chance at a successful secession. It probably won't happen - I'm a realist and a cynic, so I don't have a lot of trust in the American people at this point. I don't harbor any illusions as to the feasibility of correcting our course, even on a local level. But, God help me, I will try.

You can go on trusting the feds. You don't need to let me know how that works out - I'll be able to see the rotting corpse of a once great country easily enough.

I know you meant that sarcastically. Quite frankly, I do not care whether you find this amusing or if you take it seriously. This country is screwed, and you know it.

I will drift off to sleep very comfortably tonight knowing the future of our country is in your hands.

Steve

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Sure.
Negative - the loss of almost universal clear-cut morality, an increase in both trust of and dependence on the Federal government, loss of the sense of being tied to the land, in fact, generally a deterioration in our traditions as well, states' rights are no longer truly respected (see the results of the poll posted earlier - only 26% still believe in secession?!), and increasing influence of Northern and Left-Coast culture. The South is slowly but surely losing its identity as a distinct culture. Small farms vanishing, factory farms taking over. Demonization of the South generally in schools.

Positive - that's hard to think of. Obviously, the abolition of slavery, but aside from that... An increase in industry, I guess, as a direct result of the collapse of the plantation system and less dependence on a few crops. Aside from those, it's difficult to think of anything good that was a direct result of Union victory.