Horse People...Let's talk about giving treats, new issue for me

[welsummerchicks]

Our horses are taught to come in for a treat, but it goes in their bucket. Generally, at about dinner time, they beat us to their stalls and are standing in their stalls pawing saying, 'WEEEEEEE ARRRRE STAAAAARVVIIIIIIIING' at 4:59 and 30 seconds.

 

[Skittlez]

I also don't give treats before asking any task, always after. My horses may get a small treat occasionaly after being worked, and not all the time. I keep it very random. My neighbor was secretly feeding huge carrots to the horses. My horses would see her come outside and race as fast as they could to the fence. I caught her red handed one day. I was furious. I couldn't figure out why my shetland was sore in his feet on and off. My paint mare had every attitude in the book. Refusing to be caught, would not stand to tack up, not stand for getting on, trying to buck while riding, crowding and pushing, she even started to turn her butt to me and kick out, the whole 9 yards. I found out the neighbor was feeding 5lb bags of carrots at a time. It was a nightmare. My mare actually went through the electric fence one day, it was muddy and she couldn't stop in time. I put a stop to it as soon as I caught the neighbor.

Once the neighbor stopped feeding treat, NO more attitude problems and no more hoof issues. I can walk up to any of my horses at any time and halter them, lead them, even have their hooves trimmed without fuss. Once in a while my paint mare will run from me to be haltered. When she wants to come back to the barn, I send her away. I keep sending her away until she approaches slowly and calmly. Then she stands to be haltered.

Some horses just can't handle daily treats. I would deny your paint any treat until her behavior stops. If she was my horse I would make a turn out for her only and keep her by herself. I would make it so she can see the rest of the herd, but can not be in the same group as them. Sometimes being alone for a while helps them change their behavior.

Good luck with your mare.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Sometimes being in a turnout alone is just what the horse wanted all the time. Some horses HATE being in a group and that's what makes them irritable. Especially mares. The last thing some of them want is other horses around them.

The 'change in attitude' can actually be, 'finally some peace'.

 

[bkreugar]

Well I have settled on 2 solutions for now. I will not feed treats to catch except morab mare, and go out with dressage whip if neccesarry.

Really work on paint mares ground manners as a whole because really I think this behavior is vying for dominence, and thAT ain't happening. If/when we give paint mare treats, it will be in the bucket.

We have 7 acres and had 3 seperate turnouts. My front pasture is small but DONE with 5 strands of covered high tensil wire starting at 12" and going up 12 inches each strand. So it tops at 6 feet, with an additional strand of reg electic fence line on top and bottom and cattle gates at both exits. It is done, but took about 5 years to finish. that is where all 3 are now.

THe back 2 turnouts, have not been used since April. They were electrified high tensil. BUT we had part of the property logged. SO they took down that fencing. I had been waiting for a hard frost to kill back the brush/weeds so we could Start redoing the fences. Now we will start making stronger better fences down there in the back. SO eventually they will be seperated.

I go back and forth on HOW I am going to seperate them. My DD wants the paint mare by herself, doesn't care where and THAT would fix my problems also. BUT the old morab, has now dropped to 3rd place in the herd and she has been by herself (but next to another pasture) before and been quite happy with that. The paint mare picks on the morab. SO I COULD seperate the 3 and put each in its own turnout, but my mare would be deeply unhappy with that. She jumped the 4 ft fence in the back to get to the morab in the front.

So I would like to keep morab happy, but would put paint mare by herself. I beleive to do that I would HAVE to keep her in the front as she is SUPER athletic and I beleive the front fence would be the only one able to KEEP her in if she set her mind to getting out.

Any comments would be welcome , And ANY thought on fencing to keep deer OUT? They kept tearing down the electric back line so I want something they will stop pulling down. SO would my best bet be wood, or they 5 strands of coated high tensil like the front?

After 8 years of them periodically pulling the back line down, I am to the point where I don't care of the deer break a leg I just want them to stop destroying my fences. Sad I know, but I am over it!

Thanks Pat and Chickens and Wellsummer paticularly. I often find you helpful.

 

[welsummerchicks]

You could look into 'slant fence' or so called 'offset deer fence' for keeping deer out. That is, two fences, I THINK about 4-6 ft apart, one is slanted, neither fence needs to be high then. The deer won't go over two fences with one slanted. The one on their side is slanted, and need not be very durable or strong, even. It is a psychological barrier, they can't figure out how to jump it.

We did this and very effective protecting some baby trees from being browsed. We used woven wire, 4 feet high.

You really have done a ton of good work on your property, it sounds like. A lot of effort, expense and planning.

 

[bkreugar]

Wellsummer, My DH said, well why don't we do a barbed wire fence 4' BEYOUND the back mine and then they wouldn't tear down the horse fence. SO HE is already thinking 2 fences. I just wondered if the 6' fence like I have in front would dissuade them, especially since it is covered in white polymer and therefore highly visiable, or a 4' wood fence that they could jump over but not pull down would work.

Since he has already thought 2 fences, he would be okay with slanted fence but when you say slanted do you mean slanted like slany up slnat down or slant out , slant in? I am picturing zig zag, and made out of what?

Regarding the work, and fences put in, Yea, I had YEARS of expereince with different fences and knew what I liked. We just did it slowely, and started with one small paddock with temp step in posts and high tensil with flags. Just a slow process,and constant looking on craiglist for cattle gates. Used you can buy them at almost 1/2 price. Helps that I had (till my mare) horses that were very respectful of fences.

It is nice to look and see what you accomplished but when looking at what you still have to be done, can sometimes seem insurmountable, kinda like training.

I knew I had done well when DD's trainer said I used my land very well to serve us the best for the little bit we had. I think people think it all has to be dome NOW, and I look at it as a process. We started with NO fence at all.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Slow and steady wins the race...work is never done on a horse farm.

Ours had a double fence with NO slant. Both were 4' high and just woven wire and t-posts, they were about 4 feet apart. Everyone laughed at it and said 'you need an eight foot fence to keep deer out, you're wasting your time, HA HA HA'.

It worked. Not one single deer poop around the trees, not one branch nibbled. And we had other trees that weren't fenced to compare to.

In many deer fences, the second fence IS slanted, it's slanted the same amount its whole length. It's not a zig zag. The slant fence is the one you find most often recommended whenever someone doesn't insist you need eight feet of woven wire.

The slanted fence need not be so durable or sturdy. It is a psychological deterrant. It can be picked up and leaned back the other way in order to maintain the main fence or mow. People don't all agree as to what is the most effective, or which side to put the slant fence on. These show it on the 'crop side', I've also seen it on the outside...side.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...page=3&ndsp=9&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:13&tx=55&ty=28

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...age=7&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:54&tx=71&ty=30

Others recommend planting shrubs along the fence that deer dislike. I think from what research I read back when we did this, the fence with the second, slanted component, was the most effective. I was surprised to find there were a lot of studies of fencing for deer, I should have realized it's such a big economic impact of course there would be.

When running in terror, deer usually tend to stick to known feeding paths unless under extreme duress. From watching deer, I think that when feeding, deer tend to look over fences before they jump them. If they can't figure the jump out, they don't jump. Their usual jumping style when feeding is cautious and to jump more up than across.

 

[patandchickens]

Supposedly (I know people who have done various forms of double deer fencing but not done it myself) it does not necessarily need to be slanted -- an "oxer" type arrangement is said to work pretty well too, to keep them from jumping the fence. (BTW deer can most certainly jump a 6' fence, the mere height is not enough to control them)

HOWEVER it sounds (?) like your problem is that the deer are just running right THROUGH the fence, not having seen it? I know that can happen with electric rope or electrobraid, can break the former or at least rip the latter off a whoooolllle bunch of posts. If it IS chiefly a visibility problem, then I am not sure whether a double fence would necessarily help (unless running through the first part slowed 'em down enough they didn't total the second part too

).

One possibility would be to run a line of WIDE tape (would not necessarily need to be electrified) or board, on the OUTSIDE of the high-tensile electric wire fence. Or possibly two, one at the top of the fence and one at sort of deer-wither-height, if the fence is highish.

I do not believe barb wire keeps deer out very well btw and if it were me I would not want to install it anywhere at ALL near the horses. All's it takes is for a horse to get loose -- say a tree falls on your high-tensile fence, or the wrong gate is left open, or a deer totals your horse fence despite your best efforts -- and then you have horse+barbwire, which generally =vetbills+disability.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

I had never had problems with deer before I moved here, but what I have discovered here is that our deer will pick their way thru the fence IF they know it is there. And where we have double fences, I have watched the whole herd go thru one at a time, ducking under the hot wire on the first fence and stepping between the bottom and middle wires of the second fence (which is also hot). They never seem to jump them (the hot wire ones). Now we have horse fence (that V-shaped stuff) on the perimeter and they DO jump that without a second thought. I think the key is visibility. Where we have the tape, we have no problems at all. Where we had just the wire, they would snap it, mostly I think, because they could not see it. Once we ran the extra tapes and they could see that easily, we had no more issues of broken fences.

HTH


Rusty

 

[welsummerchicks]

Do what w'ere doing then, run all lines hot.

As for having them push through, the top rail should solve that. I don't think tape will.

But we have had good luck with double fence and the research is behind it and the slant arrangement.