How About a Jumbo Co Op

[Buttercup Chillin]

UM.... I hope I didn't mislead you somewhere along the line. I only have 9 original Female Jumbo Brown breeders in 2 breeding pens. 12 if I include my F1's. And only until these eggs have flown in the Spring. Then I will make room for my breeding projects as I am about done with the Brown's and they will go back to the breeder. Who does no mailings. The Manchurians won't be ready to fly anytime soon. There are also 2 other birds out there. So those egg foams above are way to large for the number of eggs I can mail out.

Just how thick are they? If not 2" thick I have to lay the eggs on their side, I am not sure the holes would be big enough to get them out without crushing them?

I have been looking at www.SouthernFarmHatchery.com and their foam trays are 2 inches thick and they have 21-24 hole small trays. They need that thickness and that is about the right size for me to ship. Think I'll order a dozen.

I have been thinking I had to lay them on their sides to mail so would need the 21 hole, but I can put them pointy end down in a 2" thick tray so 24 holes should be good. People, these eggs are not Jumbo wanna be's, they are Jumbo Coturnix eggs that will hatch Jumbo Brown Coturnix and maybe some M Golds. You will need smaller eggs to keep them on the turning racks. I cannot send them, my flock is not large enough to have new layers at each hatching time like my breeder.

I have yet to work with the Males but they are all within 1 oz of each other. The females are all at least 10 oz at 6 weeks. When I send the eggs I will send breeding help, and some of you will not agree. But it is what I did out of necessity and it is working so far. These are not Pharoah size or even just large birds. They are Jumbos and they need to be raised and bred a little differently. The closer you come to what they need, the larger the birds will be. I know for a fact that they are still growing and improving, according to my last processing on 12/4. So have fun with them, they have a surprise for you inside for those of you that process.

I will order 12 flats for 24 eggs and only 12. If you are interested, PM me. I need to plan out my Spring hatches because you live all over the country. I am also going to give them a break soon. Some are 6 months old now. If no one wants them, they won't make it past December.

But remember, they are Jumbo Browns, that were used to increase the size of Manchurian Golds. So they carry a lot of Lethal Gold in them. But those that hatch and survive are sure pretty Jumbos. So I don't want to hear about poor hatch rates. I can tell you right now, you are not going to have high hatch rates. Look back at my hatchings, those rates haven't changed yet.

edited to correct: I better correct here, its my F1's that are more consistent in size, but if I can do it, I am sure you with more experience can with even better results in a shorter time. However my F2's are going in the bator 12/15 so will have eggs to hatch in Feb.

 

[JJMR794]

Cut The Foam Shippers In Quarters And Use Them In The 7x7x6 Usps Priority Mail Boxes To Ship About 2 Dozen Eggs At A Time

 

[diggypaws]

Quote:
I could have sworn this thread was for Jumbo believers and the nay sayers and unbelievers promised to stay elsewhere. They did want us to start our own thread, so they wouldn't have to yada yada. I am sure this thread title included the word Jumbo to warn them off. Am I right or wrong about that. I thought I read that when I was catching up after Thanksgiving. I quess it was wishful thinking. Well, lets get it done and who cares what they say.

If I want birds the size of chicken, I will raise chicken and I do. Ok, so at what age do you want a 1lb Coturnix (a Giant by the way - not a Jumbo). I am thinking of staying with the old standard of 10-14 Oz live weight at 6-7 weeks. But actually, I prefer 10-12 oz at 6-7 weeks, 13-14 at 8-9 weeks, I think would do nicely if you want them a bit bigger. I suppose if you really want to grow them out to a Giant, that being defined as being 1lb and over (as of old) they would be capable of easily making that weight by week 12 when they reach their full size.

I think this makes a good dual purpose bird, with good size eggs early on and grow it as big for as long as you want to feed it. So to speak. Personally, I don't like the taste of a bird over the age of 8 weeks and even that is stretching it a bit. Just to strong of a feed taste, a strong almost bitter taste. Oh yes, I want white meat somewhere on the bird. Not light meat, white meat, as they have had time to further develope (mature) a little on their own. Light meat or striated on the legs is just fine though, especially for the newer color Jumbos, they have a lighter taste. There will be more Jumbo colors coming, I am sure, certain of that.

This is my ideal dual purpose Coturnix. What do you think?

Now you know I can say that as I have a whole growout cage full of females (well a dozen females anyway) that are 12 oz and over at 7 weeks. (at 6 weeks I weight and tag 12F/4M keeping no more males than 4 to choose from). Not so much weight for the boys but then, I haven't paid to much attention to them. Their turn is coming up, though. Also, I do not weigh after they are 7 weeks as I have already picked my breeders and culled the rest of the hatch. I don't really pay attention to my breeders weight as I am not going to be eating them until I am done with their breeding. They are a good portion of my meat, so I try not to waste any. I don't mean to be crude just factual.

I start breeding my own birds after the 1/1/11 hatch, so I really would like to know before then.

So, above Weights/Ages
Good size eggs at an early age, not 11 weeks, that is to long of a wait for me, I prefer 6 weeks, not before.
Easily sexed early, by feather sexing or something else. (See above Weights/Ages for explanation).
Light meat/white meat (has to have Whites in the genetics somewhere).
Pretty.
What am I forgetting? My list is longer than this so will have to edit this later, I guess.
I am not selling to restaurants so don't care what color they are, but they should be pretty so people will want to keep raising them and buying more from breeders. Restaurants will define color, size and meat anyway for those that do raise them for restaurants.

you are kina approaching cornish X genetics when you are talking the numbers you posted not trying to tell you what to do but if you want that size bird either raise chukars or cornish bantams or Game hens I have seen about a 10% increase in size on my birds I started in january of 2010 my birds are approximately 8-12 oz I am getting ready for about my third cull here in a coupla days both bobs and corts are going to freezer camp.

If you get some chukars or cornish that start laying at 6 wks and lay 300 eggs a year, I want some of those, too

In Illinois, you have to have a gamebird permit for chukars - I do, but a lot of my potential customers don't.

 

[diggypaws]

Quote:
Uhm, Joe? Does this mean that I'm not welcome on the quail boards? After all, I have my birds 1) for eggs and 2) for pets. I'm not interested in sending my birds to freezer camp.

Some of us aren't interested in our birds as a business. Nor are we overly interested in the cost of their production. It's sort of like someone who keeps a single dairy goat or two around because they want fresh milk. They might not be a farmer and might not care about the cost of the fresh milk - they just want the freshest milk possible, without caring what it costs. If they can afford to do this, so be it! Good for them. Why not go for it. They might choose to spend a fortune on that milk...or they could sink it into a boat and mooring fees at the local lake. Which is the better choice? It's a matter of personal priorities.

I have chosen to keep my roos around instead of butchering them and sending them to freezer camp. Again, it's a matter of personal choice. I choose to feed them and keep them around and watch them play (yes, they play here...they have great fun when I take them piles of fresh hay). So, a cost for me in raising birds in a way that fits my personal ethical / religious framework happens to be not taking the life of my roos. It's not just preference. It is something I cannot do within my beliefs. If that means that I end up spending $12 to produce each dozen of quail eggs, well, then that's a personal choice that I make in order to have those eggs (which, unlike chicken eggs, I can eat without having to spend hours on my knees by the porcelain goddess...) I could spend that money going to the movies like my friends. I could spend it flying to Europe. I could spend it on a sportscar like some colleagues, or living in an exclusive neighborhood. Instead, I spend it on my birds...

Personally, I can buy a couple of bags of feed and a few bags of bedding a month for this hobby without it breaking the bank. It's not a major expense & care for the creatures only takes me a couple of hours a week (including pen cleanings). I might even still be able to afford that boat mooring (though it might have to be a canoe...)

Please remember that we may have different reasons for keeping our birds -- or for keeping them around when others would not. However, we all want healthy birds and have in common (hopefully) a liking for these birds.

I wasn't saying that you were not welcome on the quail board. I was trying to say that, I'm not interested in reading countless university papers spanning over 40 years. Mobyquail doesn't exist! I stopped searching for it 3 years ago. I tried. (AT CONSIDERABLE COST OF TIME AND MONEY) I don't understand why people don't focus on the task at hand, rather than focusing on huge giant coturnix quail, they read about in the "Sacred text".

Your production model, and cost per bird is your own business. Don't let me poo-poo it. I have my fair share of $20+ birds. If it fits in your model, and budget....you can keep all the pets you like!

There are stupid ignorant people like myself, seeking a meat,egg,pet, business model that just want a cut and dry model. The Mr. Fluffy Poo-poo, stories are nice, but sometimes it's just a return on investment thing, and $12 is way to much to pay. If that's ok with you...FINE! I have no problem with it.

To be perfectly honest with you! I'm not sure why you even posted here. I'm not saying you shouldn't, just don't understand why.

This could be taken as almost a challenge.

What I'm getting at is the difference between 'can't be done', and 'hasn’t been done yet' for a consistently large bird.

I'm not talking about the occasional fluke, or any harmful manipulation, just saying that if we've ALREADY changed a 6oz bird to a 12oz bird, then gaining a few more oz doesn't seem like a far-fetched idea to me.

YOU tried and didn't succeed, so it can't be done?

I think I may give it a try myself before giving up.

Not sure why you seem so provoked by people who DO want to try - if you are "not interested in reading countless university papers spanning over 40 years" then don't read them

If I were telling people I have 1 lb quail when I don't, that wouldn't be doing business honestly, but if I tell people I have 13 oz quail, and trying for 1 lb quail, are you going to YELL at me for telling them the truth?

If you do, I don't CARE - I'm a little tougher than that.

Not sure why YOU posted here, when I warned in the title that it was a jumbo thread, but I read the forum rules before posting, and I didn't see anything about not being allowed to post if you didn't agree with Joe.

I'm glad Rozzie posted - it's nice to have friendly conversation about the diversity of people's bird's, goals, and feelings (I finally have tribble pictures, but that will be a different thread.)

 

[aprophet]

Quote:
I wasn't saying that you were not welcome on the quail board. I was trying to say that, I'm not interested in reading countless university papers spanning over 40 years. Mobyquail doesn't exist! I stopped searching for it 3 years ago. I tried. (AT CONSIDERABLE COST OF TIME AND MONEY) I don't understand why people don't focus on the task at hand, rather than focusing on huge giant coturnix quail, they read about in the "Sacred text".

Your production model, and cost per bird is your own business. Don't let me poo-poo it. I have my fair share of $20+ birds. If it fits in your model, and budget....you can keep all the pets you like!

There are stupid ignorant people like myself, seeking a meat,egg,pet, business model that just want a cut and dry model. The Mr. Fluffy Poo-poo, stories are nice, but sometimes it's just a return on investment thing, and $12 is way to much to pay. If that's ok with you...FINE! I have no problem with it.

To be perfectly honest with you! I'm not sure why you even posted here. I'm not saying you shouldn't, just don't understand why.

This could be taken as almost a challenge.

What I'm getting at is the difference between 'can't be done', and 'hasn’t been done yet' for a consistently large bird.

I'm not talking about the occasional fluke, or any harmful manipulation, just saying that if we've ALREADY changed a 6oz bird to a 12oz bird, then gaining a few more oz doesn't seem like a far-fetched idea to me.

YOU tried and didn't succeed, so it can't be done?

I think I may give it a try myself before giving up.

Not sure why you seem so provoked by people who DO want to try - if you are "not interested in reading countless university papers spanning over 40 years" then don't read them

If I were telling people I have 1 lb quail when I don't, that wouldn't be doing business honestly, but if I tell people I have 13 oz quail, and trying for 1 lb quail, are you going to YELL at me for telling them the truth?

If you do, I don't CARE - I'm a little tougher than that.

Not sure why YOU posted here, when I warned in the title that it was a jumbo thread, but I read the forum rules before posting, and I didn't see anything about not being allowed to post if you didn't agree with Joe.

I'm glad Rozzie posted - it's nice to have friendly conversation about the diversity of people's bird's, goals, and feelings (I finally have tribble pictures, but that will be a different thread.)

frank butler developed "butler Bobwhites" the only thing he did was eat the small ones and breed the big ones eat the small ones and breed the biggest ones so forth and so on the problem is at some point you wind up with a ball of feathers that cannot breed If I remember right the fertility on his birds ran about 5 % lots of folks do not realize before TAM tried to breed moby quail it was tried at davis at U of CA THEY HAD THE SAME RESULTS LOL go for I hope you succeed at what 2 different universities failed at of course they had funding from the government ......... what I would really like to see is someone who claims to have a moby quail put it on the scale take a picture of it not just on a scale but a coupla other things for scale purposes you would be surprised at the folks who claim to have large quail; but cannot figger out ..how a scale works LOL

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

Excuse me??? large quail on a scale ???? Not good enough for you. What you want God himself to show you????

 

[Omniskies]

If I remember correctly, back when Jumbo Coturnix first started there were a lot of people griping about how horrible the fertility rate was on them. They were kinda fun to have, but if you _really_ wanted to breed quail, you bred the original 6oz birds that would pop out babies left and right without worrying about a shoddy hatch rate.

Last year I ran into a couple of people who used to raise Jumbos back when they first started and hated them. They said the fertility was dreadful and they did nothing but poop, eat, and waste food/space. It took a while for me to convince them that the birds had improved a wee bit.

At this point I'm wondering what sort of stock is around if the immediate response to "We want bigger, better birds" is "This is as good as it gets - no more can be done with them."

Like I said before, if 13oz birds can be steadily turned into 13oz birds, who cares if they didn't make it to the 16oz mark? They made it consistantly to the 14oz mark. That's an improvement.

I agree, Aprophet. I think a big part of the problem is that people assume their birds can get that large, which makes people like me frustrated that my birds are so "small." Like the guy on ebay who swears that a jumbo isn't a jumbo unless it's at least 14oz (I got suckered into that one before doing a lot of reading in the Quail area on here about actual sizes - we'll see if I get any 14oz minimum quail out of the batch).

I want to see a YouTube video of someone weighing a soup can, then weighing a dish/container, then putting their quail inside it to verify that the scale is working and the quail is being weighed properly.

 

[Rozzie]

As a researcher myself, though not in this field, I'd encourage folks who are interested to continue their quest for Moby Quail (by any name). Now, as a vegetarian, I'm not interested, particularly. However, I see no harm in it this project over any other quail breeding projects. Is it going to be successful? Maybe eventually it will. The fact that folks have tried and failed does not mean it can't or won't be done. (Something about how many attempts it took to build a working lightbulb comes to my mind...granted, this was not a biological organism, but it still is a good illustration.)

Sure, fertility might decline. How much a breeder found to be an acceptable decline could be a subjective decision. Each breeder/ grower would have to decide for themselves if the fertility decline was a worthwhile tradeoff for having larger quail.

It seems like a more worthwhile endeavor than attempting to breed a dog with bigger ears, a more curly tail, more spots, less spots, or a quieter bark. At least you can eat your mistakes with this one... (Ahem, I guess you could your dog mistakes, too, though you might end up with an arrest record for it.)

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

So Omniskies, I take it you don't have 14 oz birds?

I sure would like to see that paperwork on the original TAMU Jumbos and what they were, or even what they wanted them to be, so I could compare them to what they are. Because I am impressed with what they are. And they are about to get better.

Note my state: around here 14 oz is the high end of Jumbos but 14-16 oz were called Giants and are called Giants here still. But the ones that breed them retired 5 now 6 years ago. I should of got some.

The jumbos aren't done changing yet. All they need is time. They are sooo Cool.

 

[diggypaws]

Quote:
But now quailladyoffortmyers is ACTUALLY AT A&M, (I'm so envious) " JJ, maybe I will find the conclusion to the Moby Quail story"

I am waiting on pins and needles to see what she finds