How to Have an Enjoyable Flock

[The Yakima Kid]

Sunny Skies wrote : ~When you said you talked to professors at the universities, their responses are based on research applied to commercial houses. You are also referring to studies that, when you go back to read them, were done on commercial flocks, which is an entirely different beast than what the average owner has. So while you have not specifically quoted them, you are referencing commerical studies.


Sunny Skies, not all agricultural research studies have been done using intensive methods. I have gone as far back as Professor James Dryden, Jull, and others from the early part of the 20th Century and referenced their work, and their stocking numbers and research. Dryden even did work on backyard poultry keeping, suggesting that 12-15 chickens could be kept in a plot 25' x 50', divided into two 12.5' wide yards, alternating use of the yards, with the unused yard planted with vegetables for the family and the poultry. Lady McDuff and Oregona produced their incredible laying records living in fresh air houses on pasture.

Once again, we find research being done on pastured poultry at agricultural universities, with the recommendations for stocking for long term farming being not much different than they were in the early part of the 20th Century. Colony housing, open front housing, and other methods developed by researchers and dedicated farmers in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries are coming back into use. I fully expect to see seed companies once again carrying thousand-headed kale seed, once a major staple for pastured poultry, a crop which could mature in cold winters, and whose stalks provided shade and shelter in the summer.

One of the few people in the country who is successfully supporting his family and sending his children to college on the income from pastured poultry is Robert Plamondon out of western Oregon. I recommend his webpage, www.plamondon.com. His success involved careful study of the agricultural bulletins and research papers related to pastured and orchard poultry done in the first half of the 20th Century.

The literature is fascinating, as the coverage of cannibalism is described under the quaint term of vices in much of the older literature.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

There are currently more than 2,000 threads here on cannibalism, and more than 47,000 on feather pecking. This suggests cannibalism is an issue in backyard flocks.

 

[SunnySkies]

I am not saying it is not a problem...in a well managed flock. Overly crowed, bored, hens with no roosters, heated coops, all of the things that people can and will do stress the birds, making them nervous and upset and lead to picking and fighting. It happens. I'm not saying it does not. But I am saying use sense, and you can minimize it. And I would not say don't buy X breed because this will happen. That is like saying don't buy a certain breed of dog because they are all mean.

Far, far, far more research is done using commercial flocks.

I think you need to be careful how you word things. The way you worded this makes it seem like this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, yet there are several people who have posted first hand experience with completely opposite results. Some beginner might find this and be completely confused or even dismayed because they made the "wrong" choice, or even think they can't keep chickens because Leghorns are all they can find.

Anyhow, I think I'm done. I can't change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

Sorry, not my intention. I agree that with adequate space and sufficient attention to socialization and very strict rules regarding the behavior of children and other pets, Leghorns can be very good backyard birds. But they aren't as forgiving of social missteps as many breeds.

Some breeds take more work, knowledge, and focus - and many people starting their first flocks need help with one or more of these. I have met people who were feeding their first flock on oatmeal or corn alone. I have carefully explained to others that their chickens were scrawny and undersized because the large lawn in back doesn't provide enough nutrition. I have seen poor biddies living in neglected, filthy conditions because their owners lost interest in human avoidant birds, and could only be troubled to toss in feed and water. I have explained that the coop is unused because the Silkies are not able to leap two feet into the air and through the door.

In other words, my opinions are based on trying to give people starting their first flocks the highest chance of success and an enjoyable experience for both them and biddy.

Many people have very small spaces and generally Leghorns do not tolerate crowding well - and because the Leghorn hens are very intelligent, if one hen learns a vice, such as feather picking, the others soon learn to do the same. I used to wonder if the reduced cannibalism in cage systems was the result of reduced opportunity to learn the behavior - and was surprised to find research that came to that conclusion.

Some breeds take more work, knowledge, and focus - and many people starting their first flocks need help with one or more of these. I have met people who were feeding their first flock on oatmeal or corn alone. I have carefully explained to others that the chickens were scrawny and undersized because free ranging in the manicured lawn didn't provide enough nutrition.

I have had friendly, non-cannibalistic Leghorns. I had a pet White Leghorn rooster I trained to walk on a leash (for his own protection because of traffic and loose animals - he could be quickly lifted out of harm's way by the harness. Most of the Leghorn roosters I have known are very charming, personable fellows. I have known a number of hens that were human friendly and pet like - but in the generally available White Leghorn strains it isn't as common as in dual purpose breeds. A friend still misses her favorite ever biddy, a White Leghorn named Daisy who was always first to greet her, and would walk in the back door to chase the cats away from their food and gorge on it, and then seek out the people in the house. Daisy learned to fly through bedroom windows when he door was closed which was against the rules. Her owner used to come home just in time to see Daisy disappearing out the window, the cats sulking under furniture, and the cat food gone. Daisy would come in the windows, enjoy her stay, and leave the minute she heard anyone returning home.

I don't suggest Dominiques, one of my two favorite breeds, as a first flock to a lot of people, either. Although a calm bird, they are very active and when pullets squabble it looks like a Currier & Ives print of a cockfight. Injuries are extremely rare - but it can be horrifying to watch as they leap into the air and drag each other around by the comb. Some are very mouthy - that is, they attempt to attract attention using their beaks. One of the friends we trade chicken sitting and other services with had not cared for our birds since we started the Dominiques. She was a bit concerned when she noticed the biddies grabbing on to pants and hanging on as people moved through the coop. She was reassured when I dangled my hand down and she saw that they were not interested in grabbing skin. They wanted attention and they grabbed on to me and pecked my shoes to obtain it. I do think it is funny to see someone walking about covered with hanging Dominiques.

There are exceptions to every rule - I have heard of a cannibalistic Orpington, which was as startling as a child's Teddy Bear morphing into Ted Bundy.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

I think we might both share the belief that the quickest way to ensure peace in the coop is a good rooster. B^) I have long wished I could have one at the house in town.

 

[The Yakima Kid]

I've also had leghorns and never, ever any cannibalism. I even had leghorn layers when I had Cornish cross meaties with the flock. No problems. I think it's a matter of space, personally.

I also disagree about keeping all birds of one breed/color. I have a highly varied flock most of the time and never have issues of birds picking on each other. Again, space and flock management IMO.

I do agree having crested breeds, silkies, etc can be an issue. But as long as all birds are basically the same size, I've been good to go.

It isn't solely management and space. Some strains are known for their inherited aggression. The Leghorns I had were from an extremely high producing commercial strain. Twenty birds confined in an 8,000 square foot yard managed to hunt each other down so they could eat the lower ranking birds' feet. I had to put peepers on them for about a month, after that time most of them had stopped.